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 Hopefully History will not repeat itself 24 years later.

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J Soshae

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PostSubject: Re: Hopefully History will not repeat itself 24 years later.   Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:15 am

I followed your link to Richard Hoskins.

I consider myself a follower of Jesus Christ and not of men.

The writings of Richard Hoskins stands in opposition to everything my Messiah gave his life for.
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Puff Daddy
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PostSubject: Re: Hopefully History will not repeat itself 24 years later.   Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:02 am

Organized religion on a large scale is nothIng but Mans use of the fear of God to manipulate and hold power over his fellow Man. That kings, governments, and poitical movements should feed false information to reigious institutions in order to move them towrds their own ungodly motivated ends should be no big surprise. There is little if any Godliness to be found in government or religion, so relying on these for a shepherd to lead us to truth and peace if pure folly. Man, when attaining power, does not desire to share it with God. The only hope a man has is that somehow in his life he can gain enough character, wisdom and courage to lay himself humbly at the foot of the cross and find a relationship with the saviour. Our government is only a machine that we need to take hold of and manhandle until it becomes what it should be, a legal mechanism responsible to us, not the other way around, which is what they want you to think it should be. You are responsible to God and your government to you. Until the world manages this, chaos, corruption and death will continue.

Fighting over the details of human history, a history that has been bastardized and too long removed to ever truly know, is pointless. It won't change anything and only serves to detract from where our focus should lie.



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PostSubject: Re: Hopefully History will not repeat itself 24 years later.   Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:32 am

Quote :
The writings of Richard Hoskins stands in opposition to everything my Messiah gave his life for.
I can make no sense of this.

What a Face
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Simple Man



Registration date : 2011-10-24

PostSubject: Re: Hopefully History will not repeat itself 24 years later.   Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:34 am

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PostSubject: Re: Hopefully History will not repeat itself 24 years later.   Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:05 pm

I do maintain that people should consider everything -- pro and con -- before coming to a conclusion.

But the spectacle of people relying on the ADL to tell them what beliefs make someone a "Christian" is truly priceless. The irony of it is beyond all power of description.

It almost makes me wonder whether, similarly, there are Jews who depend on the Vatican Press Office to tell them what good Jews believe. But I know better. That kind of imbicility is unique to mass-market "Christianity."

Notice this about Belief, friends : it is immune to facts, to common sense, to reason, and even to personal experience. As useful (and even necessary) as it is to maintain the moral compass without which people are two-legged animals, when it is misused, it disables the ability we are born with to comprehend our own experience and the world around us.

Misused belief is a five-year-old throwing a tantrum : "Santa Claus is going to being me a pony for Christmas. And anybody who says he's not is a stinky old poopy head and I hate him! My mind's made up."

This is why those in the business of manipulating people who don't realize they're being manipulated rely on it, almost exclusively. Above all, if facts (such as those I presented last time for you to consider) are invoked, they must be evaded, denied, minimized or rationalized-away into seeming insignificance. If facts are allowed at all, as in the ADL hit piece cited, they are so selectively chosen to create a particular emotional (NBB) impression that the result is, via selective omission, using the truth to tell a lie.

The only way to overcome that is, of course, to consider what the consensus-disturber is saying, with belief suspended, on a purely factual basis. That would require actually reading what he wrote. But this is the last thing that can be allowed.

Karl Marx wrote:
History repeats itself.

The first time as tragedy.

After that as farce.

The Inquisition always enjoys burning heretics at the stake more than having to acknowledge that the earth revolves around the sun after all. That's why it keeps being what it is, and doing what it does.

By their fruits shall ye know them.

And enjoy your pony.

What a Face
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PostSubject: Re: Hopefully History will not repeat itself 24 years later.   Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:10 pm

RKH wrote:
Before a merchant can go to a foreign land and buy and sell he must do two things. First, he must make arrangements with the priests of that land so that their god will not order his followers to kill him. Second, he must hire a king for a body guard...
Grasp that one simple fact and you have the key to the religious-economic conquest of the west.

What a Face
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Airborne



Registration date : 2011-07-06

PostSubject: Re: Hopefully History will not repeat itself 24 years later.   Tue Jan 17, 2012 4:56 pm

A plea . . .

The basis of this forum, the reason it exists at all, is captured in its name: Brothers of Briar. While we enjoy of host of unrelated topics that are interesting and positive, nowhere on this forum do I find a heading that reads: Politics or Religion. The closest, I suspect, is The Round Table. But a word of caution: while we all have our opinions about those two subjects, please think twice about expounding on them. The quickest way to undermine this perfectly good forum is to create ill will by arguing over issues in an attempt to change anotherís view, or worse yet, to ďenlightenĒ him with endless extended discourse. There are plenty of forums on the internet that are unambiguously for that purpose.
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Simple Man



Registration date : 2011-10-24

PostSubject: Re: Hopefully History will not repeat itself 24 years later.   Tue Jan 17, 2012 5:09 pm

...


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alfredo_buscatti

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PostSubject: Re: Hopefully History will not repeat itself 24 years later.   Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:26 pm

I don't agree. We are all adults. We know what the limits of decency are, and at least in this part of BoB, we know they must be observed.

I myself often read responses in these type of threads that are so beyond my belief system that I make a mental note not to cross swords with that poster, mostly because I know that if I do, the conflict will never end, that it's not worth it to try to penetrate that type of belief system. But that doesn't mean that anyone can't post, within the limits of decency.

I don't for a moment believe that such posting will have an adverse affect on BoB. It's contained in this forum and thread. It's not in the forums for tobacco and pipes. If the combatants have such emotion left over from this thread and carry it into other forums, they'll have to duke it out in pms.
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Mikem
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PostSubject: Re: Hopefully History will not repeat itself 24 years later.   Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:20 pm

I was going to refrian from commenting on a bunch of the posts that followed my initial post, but I can't. I could care less why or who is in the wrong, or when and how the mess in the Middle East started. confused I have been all over the world in my career. Certain parts of the world hate the West and what it stands for, religiously, financially, and our way of life. There has been fighting over there for millenium, and I can care less why. It is the nature of man. Welcome to Earth, third rock from the sun. I just hope cooler heads prevail "ON BOTH SIDES" of this issue. I for one don't really want to lose a kid in this unneccesary conflict. I am sure there are a lot of Iranian parents who feel the same. Some of you guys missed the whole reason for this post and want to put blame on the U.S., the West, Muslims or who ever. Again I could care less who is pissing on who's Wheaties. I just hope cooler heads will prevail so no one gets shot up or worse. Shit its no wonder there is so much conflict in the world. Just look at some of the arguments presented here for the why and who is to blame. It is no wonder that this world is so screwed up. History is History study scratch , no matter what version you think is the gospel. Get over it and move on..........
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Airborne



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PostSubject: Re: Hopefully History will not repeat itself 24 years later.   Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:55 am

alfredo_buscatti wrote:
I don't agree. We are all adults. We know what the limits of decency are, and at least in this part of BoB, we know they must be observed.

I myself often read responses in these type of threads that are so beyond my belief system that I make a mental note not to cross swords with that poster, mostly because I know that if I do, the conflict will never end, that it's not worth it to try to penetrate that type of belief system. But that doesn't mean that anyone can't post, within the limits of decency.

I don't for a moment believe that such posting will have an adverse affect on BoB. It's contained in this forum and thread. It's not in the forums for tobacco and pipes. If the combatants have such emotion left over from this thread and carry it into other forums, they'll have to duke it out in pms.


I didnít solicit your agreement. Actually, I donít give a flying fuck whether you agree or disagree with me. My plea was to think twice before engaging in discussions concerning politics and religion because of the subsequent ill will it often causes. You donít own this site. Youíre a guest here. Youíre in someone else's house. Act accordingly.





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alfredo_buscatti

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PostSubject: Re: Hopefully History will not repeat itself 24 years later.   Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:27 am

John I must say that I appreciate your tact. As regards me acting as if I owned BoB, I don't see that in my post; but I do see it in yours.
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Puff Daddy
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PostSubject: Re: Hopefully History will not repeat itself 24 years later.   Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:49 am

Airborne wrote:
Actually, I donít give a flying fuck whether you agree or disagree with me. My plea was to think twice before engaging in discussions concerning politics and religion because of the subsequent ill will it often causes. You donít own this site. Youíre a guest here. Youíre in someone else's house. Act accordingly.

Wow, what an asshole you are! You preach about restraint out of respect and then proclaim to not give a flying fuck what another person thinks in the same breath. You put out a plea to cause no ill will and then drop a shitstorm of it because someone comes along and has a different view of what's going on.

You are the new guy here, and this is not Your house, so why don't You show a little respect and not hold forth on how things should go in a place that you had no hand in creating. If you'd been around here long enough enough or paid attention to what has always gone on here you'd notice that we engage in a lot of off topic discussions including politics and religion, and that we have the ability to discern between opposing opinions and dictatorial dogma. We don't need some shmuck coming in here telling us to put the baby shoes on and then dropping F bombs because he feels some delicate sensibilities have been offended.





And if you'd bother to read our rules you'd see that we don't allow your kind of language in the public areas, dickhead.

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puros_bran
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PostSubject: Re: Hopefully History will not repeat itself 24 years later.   Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:19 am

Hey Mike..
I hope your boy comes through all this unscathed.

I want to say this, and I don't mean it to sound cold if it does.

He joined knowing the risk just like the rest of us. That fact alone regardless of anything else makes him a Hero.
Jr joined the military in a time of war. Any of you bozo's arguing right or wrong think about the implications of that act?
He signed a blank check up to and including piling a lifetime of grief upon his mom and dad for what he believes is right and respectable. He joined thinking it would continue a way of life for us that allows us to sit in our homes, burning electricity sending our stupid arguements out over the ethernet while munching a sammich and sipping a beer. He didn't say "the Federal government is controlled by the banks" or "the Islamic dog must die" or any thing other than "This is my home, I must defend this."
Is he defending it? or Marching for Power hungry Bankers? It doesn't matter.. He believes he is defending us, the hundreds of thousands of kids that join every year, in time if war, just like he did believe they are defending us..

You guys are arguing over them like they don't matter. I don't care about the Rothschilds, I can't change that.. i don't care if Mr Islam is peaceful or tyranical, I can't change that either way. In this context I don't even care about the right or wrong of the situation, arguing on a pipe board is not going to change it...

I do care about those kids over there though. A man comes in here worrying about his son, and WE make the stupidest post in the history of the internet, myself first and foremost. Wish the man and his sone well, say a lil prayer or meditate or whatever you do for them, and move along.


(I put this in the rubber room to hide it, I'm moving it back.. let everyone see just how retarded we act.. it should change some of the stuffy supiriority bullshit that goes on)


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PostSubject: Re: Hopefully History will not repeat itself 24 years later.   Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:01 pm

There are a lot of sides to every issue. And pointing one out doesn't invalidate another one. Lots of things can be true about one and the same thing.

What makes me stop and think is WHY on earth we have the crazy idea that (presumably) grown, intelligent adults cannot discuss anything that touches on "politics" or "religion" ? Where did we get that idea from ?

I think it's an example of what psychologists call "learned helplessness."

And I also think (to the extent that anybody cares -- if there is one) that the automatic, knee-jerk insulting reactions when stuff like that does come up are a learned behavior too. People see it on television & hear it on the radio (and see it on the inter-nut) so often they figure that's "just how you respond" to some idea that annoys you.

I keep harping and harping on the way that the Belief Mode and Operant Conditioning (Behavior Modification/Social Engineering/Brainwashing) derail potential comprehension. But holy cow, guys, every time I turn around, there they are again -- big as life.

What a Face
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puros_bran
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PostSubject: Re: Hopefully History will not repeat itself 24 years later.   Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:05 pm

Time and a place for everything...

Guy comes in scared for his kid and we want to make it into some kinda bullshit post about right/wrong politics/religion etc

Knock it off and let it go...

Wish Mike and his family well and walk away from it..

I don't care if you agree or disagree with me. I don't even care if anyone thinks I'm an asshole..
Knock it off and pay an old friend that much respect.

Capo would kick all our asses for doing this in THIS thread.

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PostSubject: Re: Hopefully History will not repeat itself 24 years later.   Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:26 pm

Yo, Peeb. Time to take a shower & go to work, so quick & to-the-point.

I'm 100% supportive of & concerned about Mike's kid in the military. And PeeDee's. And everybody else's here too. I'd have 'em all back here in a New York Minute.

Maybe it's that I'm a feebleminded moralist, but I can't keep that concern for their wellbeing in a separate little category somewhere. It's part and parcel of the fact -- obvious to me -- that it's wrong and immoral that they're even there in the first place for us to have to worry about.

Same thing finally happened over 'Nam. It isn't until the fed-up common folk finally start the pot boiling over that anything other than bu$ine$$ a$ u$ual becomes a viable option on the table.

Bring 'em ALL home, I say.

Amen.

The rest of it was in response to allegations that there was some good reason why they should be there. There isn't one.

What a Face

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Puff Daddy
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PostSubject: Re: Hopefully History will not repeat itself 24 years later.   Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:29 pm

Yak wrote:

The rest of it was in response to allegations that there was some good reason why they should be there. There isn't one.

What a Face


patriotism, duty to country, a desire to succeed at something valuable. It isn't the soldiers who are questioned, they are there because they are soldiers. It is the leaders who must answer. But, those should be separate issues in the sense that one wouldn't want to muddy the philosophical water of morality as it pertains to the soldier, as happened during Nam. The soldier should not have to answer to the moral imperative put before the leader, just as the leader should not be able to hide behind the duty and valor of the soldier.

Bring the boys back home.

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idbowman

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PostSubject: Re: Hopefully History will not repeat itself 24 years later.   Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:59 pm

puros_bran wrote:
Time and a place for everything...

Guy comes in scared for his kid and we want to make it into some kinda bullshit post about right/wrong politics/religion etc

Knock it off and let it go...


This.




I know I'm still relatively new, but isn't this precisely why we have "The Rubber Room" subforum? Not necessarily the original post, but definitely the debate that followed. Just my $.02


Edit: Just saw PBs bit about moving to the RR and back.


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J Soshae

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PostSubject: Re: Hopefully History will not repeat itself 24 years later.   Wed Jan 18, 2012 4:15 pm

Mike,

Yes, thank you for your son's service. And thank you for raising a son who loves our country.

May our troops be kept safe while on duty and be proud of the years they dedicate to service.
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PostSubject: Re: Hopefully History will not repeat itself 24 years later.   Wed Jan 18, 2012 4:58 pm

OK guys. Yes it could have been a thread where 27 different people respond "Yeah!", or "Nice pipe!", or whatever. There are other forums for that, places where actual threads of conversation are hidden among a multitude of "Yup"s. What happens when we try to take a simple topic starter and expand on the original idea, where the conversation grows and takes on a life of it's own (you know, like actual conversation in real life) is it's sometimes succesful, sometimes a failure, and sometimes a situation where one guy says "Well F U pal!" and the next guy says "Yo momma mofo!!". Unfortunately, in this thread, where I beleive most everyone intended a respectful response, the respect due the original post got lost in the rhetoric. I appologize, for myself and for BoB. When we're so used to taking a cue from one topic and expanding upon it, it can be difficult to refrain when the situation dictates.

I wouldn't want this place to become a Yup forum, to lean towards political correctness for fear of stepping on toes (really, do we need another like that?). Hopegully we can realize that the idea is not to repress dialogue, but to restrain from inappropriate timing.

Perhaps a Sandbox, a "Yo Mama!" sticky thread in the Rubber Room where grievances can be aired when they would be better not aired In Medias Res. A simple "Take it to the sandbox boys!" could help keep threads clean and keep them from constantly being moved to the rubber room.

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PostSubject: Re: Hopefully History will not repeat itself 24 years later.   Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:00 pm

J Soshae wrote:
Mike,

Yes, thank you for your son's service. And thank you for raising a son who loves our country.

May our troops be kept safe while on duty and be proud of the years they dedicate to service.

What he said. Exclamation
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MartinH

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PostSubject: Re: Hopefully History will not repeat itself 24 years later.   Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:22 pm

Mike - I hope your son returns home safe. My sister did one tour as a Marine, and then a tour as an Army Reservist, both in Iraq. It was very nerve wracking for all of us, and I know the joy of having your family back together again. Wishing you all good things, as to your son. My father served in the Air Force for 27 years, and I grew up a midst the Reagan - Bush era military of the 80s and 90s.

Those men and women, while there are plenty of other incentives for joining, want to serve their country. Hell I did, and couldn't get in because of medical issues. Remembering my father come home every day in uniform, I know that there is no greater pride a man or woman can bear, than having worn the uniform for his country.

Best wishes.

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Simple Man



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PostSubject: Re: Hopefully History will not repeat itself 24 years later.   Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:11 pm

*


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MisterE
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PostSubject: Re: Hopefully History will not repeat itself 24 years later.   Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:46 pm

I can't believe I missed this whole thread.
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