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 Dark Fired KY and Burley

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alfredo_buscatti

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Age : 62
Location : Piedmont, North Carolina
Registration date : 2007-12-17

PostSubject: Dark Fired KY and Burley   Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:57 pm

As I understand it Dark Fired KY is burley; the process of curing it sounds a great deal like flue-curing. Enclose the tobacco and start a fire smoldering. Keep doing it until done. So why are two different processes named?

Also, DF KY is smoked burley, but in general burley is air-cured; does this mean that the only difference is in the curing?
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Fired KY and Burley   Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:13 pm

It would seem so. scratch
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Kyle Weiss

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Location : Reno, NV
Registration date : 2011-09-18

PostSubject: Re: Dark Fired KY and Burley   Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:15 pm

There was a heated (pun intended) discussion recently that one gent, who no longer posts, suggested that the name of any tobacco is derived from its curing, rather than varietal. I found some evidence to partially support this, but also evidence that said "incomplete."

To my knowledge, "fire-cured" means the tobacco comes into contact with more of the fire/smoke itself, and the "flue-cured" uses fire, but the heat/smoke is re-routed through flues to introduce heat convection. One turns out more woodsy and robust, the other, because of the heat applied, brings out more sugars and body. Air-curing is just as it sounds, leaving it in ventilated barns/sheds to do their thing naturally...as is sun-cured, with some more heat provided by our friend Del Sol. If anything, the heat itself helps bring more volatile compounds and sugars to the surface, and less heat/more "air dry" keeps these compounds locked up, and lets a more light, bright, and even grassy flavor prevail.

(Cue Greg Pease to correct me...which I'll gladly have).

As for naming? Hell, you're on your own with that one. Laughing

Cool
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alfredo_buscatti

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Age : 62
Location : Piedmont, North Carolina
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Fired KY and Burley   Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:59 pm

Thanks Kyle, don't know how I missed the flue in flue-cured;).
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DrumsAndBeer

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Age : 45
Location : Northern, CA
Registration date : 2012-04-04

PostSubject: Re: Dark Fired KY and Burley   Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:20 pm

alfredo_buscatti wrote:
Thanks Kyle, don't know how I missed the flue in flue-cured;).

And then there's flu-cured. No



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Carlos
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Age : 59
Location : Chestnut, IL
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Fired KY and Burley   Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:12 pm

I don't know for sure what they do to make it Dark Fired. But it's good. Especially that Mac Baren Old Dark Fired. I have had a tin open almost continuously since it came out in Chicago.

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sonarman

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Age : 35
Location : Hampton Roads Va
Registration date : 2012-08-21

PostSubject: Re: Dark Fired KY and Burley   Wed Nov 14, 2012 8:55 pm

The dark fired sounds like good stuff, up till now it's been weeks since I have had a reason to purchase any more tobaccos. Does it taste like a burley latakia?
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alfredo_buscatti

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PostSubject: Re: Dark Fired KY and Burley   Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:27 pm

They taste almost completely different and though both are smoked, latakia is "cured over controlled fires of aromatic woods and fragrant herbs (wiki)" while dark fired is, well, only darkly fired.

Latakia's taste is intensely spicy and exotic while DF tastes deep and resonant. Neither are smoked alone, for the most part, although Heinrich has a blend featuring DF.

Pease and C&D bought a very large parcel of Mahogany in the early 90s; I believe it is a type of burley; to make matters more confusing there is also mahogany VA. At any rate it tastes nothing like the burley I've smoked. It is featured most notably in Cumberland but also in many other of their blends.

Can't say I know how burley latakia would taste.
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sonarman

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Location : Hampton Roads Va
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Fired KY and Burley   Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:22 pm

alfredo_buscatti wrote:
They taste almost completely different and though both are smoked, latakia is "cured over controlled fires of aromatic woods and fragrant herbs (wiki)" while dark fired is, well, only darkly fired.

Latakia's taste is intensely spicy and exotic while DF tastes deep and resonant. Neither are smoked alone, for the most part, although Heinrich has a blend featuring DF.

Pease and C&D bought a very large parcel of Mahogany in the early 90s; I believe it is a type of burley; to make matters more confusing there is also mahogany VA. At any rate it tastes nothing like the burley I've smoked. It is featured most notably in Cumberland but also in many other of their blends.

Can't say I know how burley latakia would taste.

Thanks, I ordered some from smokingpipes.

And, I have no idea either what a burley latakia would taste like scratch
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Kyle Weiss

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Location : Reno, NV
Registration date : 2011-09-18

PostSubject: Re: Dark Fired KY and Burley   Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:39 pm

DrumsAndBeer wrote:
alfredo_buscatti wrote:
Thanks Kyle, don't know how I missed the flue in flue-cured;).

And then there's flu-cured. No


That made me laugh. A lot. Very Happy

I imagine that the low-end flavor drop that comes with Burleyweed would make it unfavorable to processing as a Latakia. Many Turkish/Oriental leaves are rather small, and might have something to do with the way they absorb smoke. Kind of a match-made-in-heaven thing (if you like Latakia). Burley has big, likely porous leaves, and have been touted as being good at "soaking stuff up," ala sugars and aromatic flavorings. A good guess would be Burley treated as Latakia would taste like woodsmoke, and only woodsmoke, with a decent nicotine wallop.

With varietals being as they are, regions being as they are, and curing processes being what they are, there's a limited amount of combinations. With tobacco's history, I'm pretty darned sure much of it has been tried, and there's a reason why it's done the way it is.

Now, for different twists on a theme, I'm still toying with the idea of "Nevadakia." We have a lot of arid-grown, small hardwoods, aromatic shrubbery and native herbs here that would make for an interesting experiment--if I could only find reliable information on how Latakia is exactly made (beyond myth and legend). I mean, I do have camel dung available if need be (Google NV's history with camels used in the mid 19th century)...but I'd rather not.

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bigbonner



Registration date : 2014-11-02

PostSubject: Re: Dark Fired KY and Burley   Sat Apr 23, 2016 9:50 am

Sorry for bringing up a old thread
I grow tobacco here in KY . I have been growing several varieties .Each variety is different just like tomatoes .

Burley , Air cured whole stalk
Flue cured , Leaves are primed from bottom up and placed in a heated curing barn .
Dark Air same as dark fired but no smoke is used cured same as burley .
Dark Fire , Fire/ saw dust semi wet burning under the tobacco after it yellows up after cutting and hanging in barn .
Ct Broadleaf , Cut , laid on ground and after a hour or a little more it is speared onto a stick and hung in barn to cure .
Maryland 609 , Cut , laid on ground and after a hour or a little more it is speared onto a stick and hung in barn to cure .
PA Wrapper , Cut , laid on ground and after a hour or a little more it is speared onto a stick and hung in barn to cure .
Habano . Cut , laid on ground and after a hour or a little more it is speared onto a stick and hung in barn to cure .
Habano , Can also be primed and string tied on a tobacco stick for curing .
Turkish , Primed and sun cured
Perique , Is a lot like dark air but it is more the process that makes it perique tobacco , Pressure and fermentation , Burley will make perique if done by the same prosess as perique fermentation .

These are just some of the tobacco's that I grow . Each variety is different leaf texture, size , color and thickness
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AJ

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Age : 68
Location : NC
Registration date : 2012-03-18

PostSubject: Re: Dark Fired KY and Burley   Sun Apr 24, 2016 11:47 am

bigbonner wrote:
Sorry for bringing up a old thread
I grow tobacco here in KY  . I have been growing several varieties .Each variety is different just like tomatoes .

Burley  , Air cured whole stalk
Flue cured , Leaves are primed from bottom up and placed in a heated curing barn .
Dark Air  same as dark fired but no smoke is used cured same as burley .
Dark Fire  , Fire/ saw dust semi wet burning under the tobacco after it yellows up after cutting and hanging in barn .
Ct Broadleaf , Cut , laid on ground and after a hour or a little more it is speared onto a stick and hung in barn to cure .
Maryland 609 ,  Cut , laid on ground and after a hour or a little more it is speared onto a stick and hung in barn to cure .
PA Wrapper  , Cut , laid on ground and after a hour or a little more it is speared onto a stick and hung in barn to cure .
Habano  .  Cut , laid on ground and after a hour or a little more it is speared onto a stick and hung in barn to cure .
Habano , Can also be primed and string tied on a tobacco stick for curing .
Turkish  , Primed and sun cured
Perique , Is a lot like dark air but it is more the process that makes it perique tobacco , Pressure and fermentation , Burley will make perique if done by the same prosess as perique fermentation .

These are just some of the tobacco's that I grow . Each variety is different leaf texture, size  , color and thickness


Finally and it's in language I can understand. Thanks for posting this. Smile

AJ
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puros_bran
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Location : Brandenburg, Ky
Registration date : 2007-12-10

PostSubject: Re: Dark Fired KY and Burley   Sun Apr 24, 2016 11:58 am

bigbonner wrote:
Sorry for bringing up a old thread
I grow tobacco here in KY  . I have been growing several varieties .Each variety is different just like tomatoes .

Burley  , Air cured whole stalk
Flue cured , Leaves are primed from bottom up and placed in a heated curing barn .
Dark Air  same as dark fired but no smoke is used cured same as burley .
Dark Fire  , Fire/ saw dust semi wet burning under the tobacco after it yellows up after cutting and hanging in barn .
Ct Broadleaf , Cut , laid on ground and after a hour or a little more it is speared onto a stick and hung in barn to cure .
Maryland 609 ,  Cut , laid on ground and after a hour or a little more it is speared onto a stick and hung in barn to cure .
PA Wrapper  , Cut , laid on ground and after a hour or a little more it is speared onto a stick and hung in barn to cure .
Habano  .  Cut , laid on ground and after a hour or a little more it is speared onto a stick and hung in barn to cure .
Habano , Can also be primed and string tied on a tobacco stick for curing .
Turkish  , Primed and sun cured
Perique , Is a lot like dark air but it is more the process that makes it perique tobacco , Pressure and fermentation , Burley will make perique if done by the same prosess as perique fermentation .

These are just some of the tobacco's that I grow . Each variety is different leaf texture, size  , color and thickness

How big is your base?

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bigbonner



Registration date : 2014-11-02

PostSubject: Re: Dark Fired KY and Burley   Tue Apr 26, 2016 12:13 pm

At one time I grew around 60 acres of Burley tobacco .
The tobacco buyout came through and a lot of farmers stopped growing and some stayed as growers .
This was called contract growers now days . You have to sign a contract with a tobacco company and grow for them if you want a good price for our crop . Either way they still low ball farmers on prices paid for our crops .

In 2010 year companies balked on most farmers with good crops and made them take the tobacco back home and would not buy the crop . They grade the tobacco and pay farmers according to the grade . And a lot of tobacco they said they did not want .

This is why I started growing different varieties of tobacco . I still kept my contract with Phillip Morris , but now they have closed all contract stations in my area . The only buyer here is RJ Reynolds and they are full up on contracts and will not sign new ones .

2015 and this year is the only years I have not grown tobacco for big tobacco because I have no contract or a place to sell my tobacco .

I grow a lot of varieties for cigars , cigarettes , chew and pipe for people who want to make their own tobacco without all the chemicals applied by the tobacco companies .
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Ozark Wizard

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Location : Mark Twain National Forest, MO
Registration date : 2014-10-11

PostSubject: Re: Dark Fired KY and Burley   Tue Apr 26, 2016 9:20 pm

I would be very interested to talk more on this bigbonner...........
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bigbonner



Registration date : 2014-11-02

PostSubject: Re: Dark Fired KY and Burley   Tue Apr 26, 2016 10:28 pm


Ask me any questions you want or PM me .
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puros_bran
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Location : Brandenburg, Ky
Registration date : 2007-12-10

PostSubject: Re: Dark Fired KY and Burley   Tue Apr 26, 2016 10:41 pm

Coming up I worked several farms every year. There was always work to be found. Just regular old Kentucky grown burley.
When I left home to drive truck I would often haul from auction houses to Winston-Salem or Richmond and then from the warehouses to the distributors scattered all over the nation.

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bigbonner



Registration date : 2014-11-02

PostSubject: Re: Dark Fired KY and Burley   Wed May 04, 2016 9:52 am

puros_bran wrote:
Coming up I worked several farms every year. There was always work to be found.  Just regular old Kentucky grown burley.  
When I left home to drive truck I would often haul from auction houses to Winston-Salem or Richmond and then from the warehouses to the distributors scattered all over the nation.

I would say that chances are you have hauled some of my tobacco . Auction houses have closed and there are only two that I know of still
selling tobacco . Most of the tobacco on those markets are not good and prices are cheap . That is why a lot of farmers her have quit growing . Unless you have a contract you won't get your money back that you have invested in your crop .
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ZeroContent

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Age : 34
Location : Swanzey, NH
Registration date : 2010-10-23

PostSubject: Re: Dark Fired KY and Burley   Wed May 04, 2016 7:52 pm

I think more hardwoods are used for dark fired and latakia from softwoods of various evergreens. Obviously the tobacco itself is different too. Dark fired seems to be made with different types of tobaccos like VA, Mayland, burley and various hybrids. I believe DFK is a hybrid similar to burley.

For fun here's the size difference between Yenidje Oriental and Dark Fired.

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puros_bran
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Location : Brandenburg, Ky
Registration date : 2007-12-10

PostSubject: Re: Dark Fired KY and Burley   Wed May 04, 2016 7:57 pm

bigbonner wrote:
puros_bran wrote:
Coming up I worked several farms every year. There was always work to be found.  Just regular old Kentucky grown burley.  
When I left home to drive truck I would often haul from auction houses to Winston-Salem or Richmond and then from the warehouses to the distributors scattered all over the nation.

I would say that chances are you have hauled some of my tobacco . Auction houses have closed and there are only two that I know of still
selling tobacco . Most of the tobacco on those markets are not good and prices are cheap . That is why a lot of farmers her have quit growing . Unless you have a contract you won't get your money back that you have invested in your crop .  

Probably not, I got out of dry boxes 13 years ago and went to tankers..Got out of tankers 5 years ago and went to horses.. Got out of horses two years ago and got into a bottle of Percocet.

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bigbonner



Registration date : 2014-11-02

PostSubject: Re: Dark Fired KY and Burley   Wed May 04, 2016 10:32 pm

puros_bran wrote:
bigbonner wrote:
puros_bran wrote:
Coming up I worked several farms every year. There was always work to be found.  Just regular old Kentucky grown burley.  
When I left home to drive truck I would often haul from auction houses to Winston-Salem or Richmond and then from the warehouses to the distributors scattered all over the nation.

I would say that chances are you have hauled some of my tobacco . Auction houses have closed and there are only two that I know of still
selling tobacco . Most of the tobacco on those markets are not good and prices are cheap . That is why a lot of farmers her have quit growing . Unless you have a contract you won't get your money back that you have invested in your crop .  

Probably not, I got out of dry boxes 13 years ago and went to tankers..Got out of tankers 5 years ago and went to horses.. Got out of horses two years ago and got into a bottle of Percocet.

Maybe , I have been growing tobacco for right at 30 years now . Burley was my main crop until about 6 years ago . I then started growing tobacco for making cigars , pipe , chew and cigarettes .
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Bugsahearn

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Registration date : 2015-02-05

PostSubject: Re: Dark Fired KY and Burley   Thu May 05, 2016 1:48 am

bigbonner wrote:
puros_bran wrote:
bigbonner wrote:
puros_bran wrote:
Coming up I worked several farms every year. There was always work to be found.  Just regular old Kentucky grown burley.  
When I left home to drive truck I would often haul from auction houses to Winston-Salem or Richmond and then from the warehouses to the distributors scattered all over the nation.

I would say that chances are you have hauled some of my tobacco . Auction houses have closed and there are only two that I know of still
selling tobacco . Most of the tobacco on those markets are not good and prices are cheap . That is why a lot of farmers her have quit growing . Unless you have a contract you won't get your money back that you have invested in your crop .  

Probably not, I got out of dry boxes 13 years ago and went to tankers..Got out of tankers 5 years ago and went to horses.. Got out of horses two years ago and got into a bottle of Percocet.

Maybe , I have been growing tobacco for right at 30 years now . Burley was my main crop until about 6 years ago . I then started growing tobacco for making cigars , pipe , chew and cigarettes .

Hey bigbonner, you are a grower not a shower! lol!
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puros_bran
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Location : Brandenburg, Ky
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Fired KY and Burley   Thu May 05, 2016 4:12 am

Gotcha Bonner. Perhaps I did, at some stage in the process, haul the produce born of your blood, sweat, tears, and green pennies in your back pocket from walking the rows with 10-10-10..

Back when I first started hauling from the production floor to the distribution centers they would offer 2 cartoons of cigarettes when you signed the bills. A few years into it and the bean counters cut that to one carton. Then 4 packs. Then 2. Then none. The first time I rolled up and didn't get cigarettes I was some kind of pissed off. It's a good trek from Winston-Salem up to the truck stop near the Virginia line. Can't remember the name of it, but it was a giant truck stop before giant truck stops were cool. Rj Reynolds prohibited us stopping within NC after hooking the freight.

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bigbonner



Registration date : 2014-11-02

PostSubject: Re: Dark Fired KY and Burley   Thu May 05, 2016 8:46 am

Did you ever haul any hand tied tobacco or tobacco in a hoggs head barrel ?

Those hand tied basket's was something to see . I remember my dads big truck loaded sticks of hand tied tobacco . I just wish I had a picture of the load from back then .
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