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 What are/will be the "classics" of the future?

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geordiebooker

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PostSubject: What are/will be the "classics" of the future?   Sun Mar 10, 2013 6:30 am

I have only recently become a pipe smoker, but man there is a steep learning curve here.....there seem to be hundreds of brands around, different makers...some long gone and some revived.

I will buy whatever shapes or brands catch my eye and I enjoy searching the net, fleamarkets and sales for the next "great smoker".

It seems that that a few estate pipes are considered to be well made and highly collectable....such as bewlay, parker, peterson etc.

It also seems that a few of you guys hold the opinion that some of these older brands that still produce or have started to produce pipes again, maybe under a different ownership are not what they used to be and will opt for an estate pipe over a new pipe.


My question is this:

What newly introduced brands do you think will become the classics of the future....I'm not talking arstisan made pipes here, I mean full on mass produced pipes that are value for money, are well made and above all smoke well.

I would be interested to hear your comments on this.
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ED_X

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PostSubject: Re: What are/will be the "classics" of the future?   Sun Mar 10, 2013 10:43 am

One that came to mind quickly is Northern Briar although they have been around since the 1940's I think. Still a fairly young company; Ashton is another. But really I think the future classics aren't going to come from large companies but rather from smaller companies and/or individuals, with production under 500 pipes per year.

Ed
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lifeon2



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PostSubject: Re: What are/will be the "classics" of the future?   Sun Mar 10, 2013 11:50 am

Kaywoodie
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PostSubject: Re: What are/will be the "classics" of the future?   Sun Mar 10, 2013 1:30 pm

Given decent briar and decent execution (plus a healthy dose of nosthalgia), in the end, what distinguishes the Classics from the others is design.

Fact.

The Ben Wades, Dunhills and others of days gone by were excellence in design and excellence in translating those designs into briar and vulcanite reality.

Starting in the 1960s, your strongest contenders in the (semi-)mass-production area are probably (selected) Stanwells and Castellos, with others coming and going. Providing I could replace the cheapass cast stems they used, my nomination for "Best of the Era" would be Armellini's first venture into the US market.

In the Artisan pipes area, a lot of people would wave the Danish flag high and energetically. But IMO, a lot of expensive pipes came/come out of Denmark that, as the passage of time alters aesthetic notions, will be footnotes rather than headliners when the history's finally written.

If I had $500 to blow on a new pipe, it would be a Rad Davis billiard.

What a Face


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Kyle Weiss

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PostSubject: Re: What are/will be the "classics" of the future?   Sun Mar 10, 2013 2:26 pm

I like Yak's mention of the "Artisan Pipe Era." Pipes do have eras...they may never die, but they are dynamic in existence. 40 - 50 years ago, there were dozens of companies churning out pipes, some good, some mediocre, some crappy. Less than half (an assumption on my part) exist today, and those that do have product output that is far shy of what they made and sold decades ago.

That said, the "new classics" can be anything. Peterson pipes are still well-made, and largely the same way with the same tools they always have. Everyone else has outsourced their cheaper lines, are using more automated machinery or simply isn't focusing on that attention to detail--so, enter the "Artisan Pipe Era." The urge for a quality, pretty or even a name-brand pipe hasn't really diminished, per capita, but pipe collecting of the old ones has made many of them scarce, unless you know what you're looking for. Fortunately for us, there's plenty of motivated guys (and gals) who aren't afraid to turn a few pieces of briar, and we have more choices of stunning classics and wild artist-concept pipes than ever before seen.

So, while the "Golden Age" of pipes is long gone, and as we consume, use up, trade and sell the good pipes of yesteryear, we have literally made quite a few sources of our own. Which ones will be sought after? Probably the same ones that are sought after today, those with a name behind them and craftsmanship to boot. Word spreads quickly, and even more in the Internet age, and weary should be the maker who tries to churn out cheap pipes for a quick buck--unless they're Missouri Meerschaum, but they earned their spot in history and with the pipe world with a great, cheap product unique to them. Our version of these quick-buck pipemakers are usually in Eastern Europe or China, selling non-briar pipes with a pretty finish. Cheap pipes are a racket all their own--they've always been there, always will be. They don't plan on being around forever, but capitalizing on fads--there's a sucker born, as they say.

We live in a good time for pipes, it's (for now) still pretty cheap to get very good tobacco, decent pipes are abundant for those who want them at any spending level, and there's been a great resurgence of interest in the hobby by the younger generations. Appreciate it while it lasts. Smile

Cool
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Kashmir

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PostSubject: Re: What are/will be the "classics" of the future?   Sun Mar 10, 2013 9:50 pm

Indeed appreciate it while it lasts. I hear the taxman cometh ...
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Rad Davis

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PostSubject: Re: What are/will be the "classics" of the future?   Sun Mar 10, 2013 11:05 pm

Yak wrote:


If I had $500 to blow on a new pipe, it would be a Rad Davis billiard.

What a Face



Thanks, Yak! You can get a blast for much less than that. Laughing

Rad
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HCraven

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PostSubject: Re: What are/will be the "classics" of the future?   Sun Mar 10, 2013 11:52 pm

geordiebooker wrote:

My question is this:

What newly introduced brands do you think will become the classics of the future....I'm not talking arstisan made pipes here, I mean full on mass produced pipes that are value for money, are well made and above all smoke well.

I would be interested to hear your comments on this.

Some very thoughtful and informative answers have been given here. I'm not sure which makes will become future classics on the order of older GBD's, Charatans, Comoys, etc., but in terms of younger brands that offer a lot of value for the dollar in a mass produced pipe, I can think of three Danish makers that fit that description: Nording, Neerup, and Johs. You can get a new pipe from any of the three of them for between $65-$120, and in both my experience and that of others I've spoken to, they are great smoking pipes.
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sisyphus

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PostSubject: Re: What are/will be the "classics" of the future?   Mon Mar 11, 2013 5:39 am

Yak wrote:

In the Artisan pipes area, a lot of people would wave the Danish flag high and energetically. But IMO, a lot of expensive pipes came/come out of Denmark that, as the passage of time alters aesthetic notions, will be footnotes rather than headliners when the history's finally written.

holy cow I agree with you on something. I think after Sixten the only Danes that have made enduring, unique and beautiful shapes have been Bang and sometimes Eltang. The rest of the Danes kind of fuse together in a nondescript blur of generic scoops, figs and other dull contemporary Danish shapes.
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sisyphus

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PostSubject: Re: What are/will be the "classics" of the future?   Mon Mar 11, 2013 5:52 am

geordiebooker wrote:


My question is this:

What newly introduced brands do you think will become the classics of the future....I'm not talking arstisan made pipes here, I mean full on mass produced pipes that are value for money, are well made and above all smoke well.

None. The reason being, for this to happen, someone would have to be making high quality pipes with excellent briar, elegant shaping, nice hand cut stem work, at a price that would allow Joey Bagodonuts to buy them. Dunhill, Loewe, Sasieni, Comoy's, etc all sold pipes at a price that people could afford, and if they had to stretch to buy one, they didn't have to stretch too far.

Look at today's $100 and under pipe. There is not one maker making pipes at this level that are going to be treasured heirlooms. As far as I'm concerned the best you can do at this level is find a pipe that is an excellent introduction to pipe smoking and your gateway to better briars. The day of excellent, inexpensive factory pipes is gone.

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monbla256

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PostSubject: Re: What are/will be the "classics" of the future?   Mon Mar 11, 2013 7:41 am

sisyphus wrote:
geordiebooker wrote:


My question is this:

What newly introduced brands do you think will become the classics of the future....I'm not talking arstisan made pipes here, I mean full on mass produced pipes that are value for money, are well made and above all smoke well.

None. The reason being, for this to happen, someone would have to be making high quality pipes with excellent briar, elegant shaping, nice hand cut stem work, at a price that would allow Joey Bagodonuts to buy them. Dunhill, Loewe, Sasieni, Comoy's, etc all sold pipes at a price that people could afford, and if they had to stretch to buy one, they didn't have to stretch too far.

Look at today's $100 and under pipe. There is not one maker making pipes at this level that are going to be treasured heirlooms. As far as I'm concerned the best you can do at this level is find a pipe that is an excellent introduction to pipe smoking and your gateway to better briars. The day of excellent, inexpensive factory pipes is gone.


There ya go. THE word has come down from above Twisted Evil Take the pipes, put 'em in a drawer, take your 'bac, pack it away or discard, I'm sure it's NOT the SAME as the CLASSICS were anyway, and go buy a carton of unfiltered Camels Twisted Evil Oh well Rolling Eyes
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sisyphus

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PostSubject: Re: What are/will be the "classics" of the future?   Mon Mar 11, 2013 7:47 am

Name an inexpensive modern factory pipe that belongs on the rack next to your Comoy's and Dunhills then. I didn't say there weren't any good pipes being made today, but you have to spend more than most pipe smokers ever will to get one, and none of them fit the criteria of the question that was asked. The cheapest good pipe I can think of that is being produced today are Trever Talbert's Ligne Bretagnes at approx. $150, but he doesn't make enough of them to qualify as an answer to the OP's question.
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monbla256

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PostSubject: Re: What are/will be the "classics" of the future?   Mon Mar 11, 2013 7:51 am

sisyphus wrote:
Name an inexpensive modern factory pipe that belongs on the rack next to your Comoy's and Dunhills then. I didn't say there weren't any good pipes being made today, but you have to spend more than most pipe smokers ever will to get one, and none of them fit the criteria of the question that was asked. The cheapest good pipe I can think of that is being produced today are Trever Talbert's Ligne Bretagnes at approx. $150, but he doesn't make enough of them to qualify as an answer to the OP's question.

You have stated the way it is. No more needs be said Twisted Evil Over taxed and under qualitied, what's a guy to do Twisted Evil
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sisyphus

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PostSubject: Re: What are/will be the "classics" of the future?   Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:01 am

monbla256 wrote:

You have stated the way it is. No more needs be said Twisted Evil Over taxed and under qualitied, what's a guy to do Twisted Evil

Buy old estates Smile
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geordiebooker

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PostSubject: Re: What are/will be the "classics" of the future?   Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:50 am

sisyphus wrote:
monbla256 wrote:

You have stated the way it is. No more needs be said Twisted Evil Over taxed and under qualitied, what's a guy to do Twisted Evil

Buy old estates Smile

One a purely personal level this does seem to be where my money is better spent....out of interest sisyphus....with regards to your profile....why pre 1978?
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sisyphus

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PostSubject: Re: What are/will be the "classics" of the future?   Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:57 am

Because most of the interesting marques became Cadogan around that year, and the pipes that followed did not have anywhere near the quality of pipes previously bearing those names. If you want to hate someone in pipe smoking, hate Cadogan. Comoy's, Loewe, Orlik, GBD, BBB, and Sasieni all went to hell under their stewardship.
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geordiebooker

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PostSubject: Re: What are/will be the "classics" of the future?   Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:05 am

That makes sense now.....forgive what seemed to be a pointless question but I'm learning here....BUT Hey-Ho I was born that year.
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PostSubject: Re: What are/will be the "classics" of the future?   Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:32 am

Probably the final merger when Cadogan closed the individual factories and started using the names on pipes (eventually) made at Swansea (for a while), before and after that, subcontracting them out.

What a Face
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sisyphus

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PostSubject: Re: What are/will be the "classics" of the future?   Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:37 am

not to mention Charatan ceasing to exist as an independent concern around the same time. The end of the 70s was absolutely cataclysmic for English pipes.
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Harlock999

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PostSubject: Re: What are/will be the "classics" of the future?   Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:57 am

geordiebooker wrote:
forgive what seemed to be a pointless question

Not a pointless question at all, just somewhat problematic as posed.
The era of the great multitude of excellent factory made pipes seems to be a closed chapter, and the brands that are still standing, such as Peterson, Savinelli, Nording etc, are already considered to be classics by many smokers. The modern pipes that simply bear the stamps of legendary makers like Comoys, Charatan, Sasieni, W.O. Larsen, may still be perfectly serviceable, but that's not what we seem to be discussing here.
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geordiebooker

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PostSubject: Re: What are/will be the "classics" of the future?   Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:00 pm

I suppose I got thinking about this as I have a few new and a few estate Brighams....the older ones from the 50's, 60's and 70's seem to be much better made.

I also acquired a "new" Ben Wade....it smokes fine but, looks great but the drilling out, draw hole and tenon fit are a bit sloppy.....when compared to an old lovat (no idea of vintage) that I got on the same day....the manufacturing of this is superior in every way.

This got me thinking about the question I asked......also were these pipes "instant classic" or given a steady decline in the quality of mass produced pipes have they become classics with time and hindsight on our side.



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Kashmir

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PostSubject: Re: What are/will be the "classics" of the future?   Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:11 pm

I would heartily agree to invest your money is estates, specifically English estates, more specifically Comoys. Of my herd of 60, a full 28 are Comoys. They excelled at the classic English pipe shapes. And for me smoke like a dream. You needn't buy top of the line Blue Ribands, Specimen & Selected Straight Grains either. The Old Bruyere, Tradition and Grand Slams are all excellent choices. And if these are too high try the Everyman, Guildhsll etc. Then there are dozens of Comoy seconds under a range if names. See Pipedia for a good set of pages on Comoy history. And the Dereck Green pages if course. Then spend time on eBay perusing. Mr. Can on eBay has some great Comoy history commentary. I've cut and pasted his comments to make a home encyclopedia on brand Comoy. Here's a snap to whet your appetite.

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Hawker

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PostSubject: Re: What are/will be the "classics" of the future?   Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:32 pm

Kashmir wrote:
I would heartily agree to invest your money is estates, specifically English estates, more specifically Comoys. Of my herd of 60, a full 28 are Comoys. They excelled at the classic English pipe shapes. And for me smoke like a dream. You needn't buy top of the line Blue Ribands, Specimen & Selected Straight Grains either. The Old Bruyere, Tradition and Grand Slams are all excellent choices. And if these are too high try the Everyman, Guildhsll etc. Then there are dozens of Comoy seconds under a range if names. See Pipedia for a good set of pages on Comoy history. And the Dereck Green pages if course. Then spend time on eBay perusing. Mr. Can on eBay has some great Comoy history commentary. I've cut and pasted his comments to make a home encyclopedia on brand Comoy. Here's a snap to whet your appetite.


Don't care for the bit of rounding were the shank & bit meet but the grain on that middle pipe is about as nice of grain as i've ever seen. Wow!
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monbla256

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PostSubject: Re: What are/will be the "classics" of the future?   Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:42 pm

geordiebooker wrote:
I suppose I got thinking about this as I have a few new and a few estate Brighams....the older ones from the 50's, 60's and 70's seem to be much better made.

I also acquired a "new" Ben Wade....it smokes fine but, looks great but the drilling out, draw hole and tenon fit are a bit sloppy.....when compared to an old lovat (no idea of vintage) that I got on the same day....the manufacturing of this is superior in every way.

This got me thinking about the question I asked......also were these pipes "instant classic" or given a steady decline in the quality of mass produced pipes have they become classics with time and hindsight on our side.




My personal OPINION ( not fact) in response to your two questions can be given in two parts.
Your first question about "... newly introduced makers" ( paraphrased) is that I can only think of 1 "new" manufacturer of production pipes sold here in the US, Sebastian Beo, who's work is supposed to be very good and the pipes are supposed to be good smokers from reports I've read on other Forums. There may be some other "new" firms that I'm not aware of and if so, others here might add them to what seems to be a short list. I've not included Savinelli or Peterson as these firms do not fall into your first question about "new" firms though they STILL produce EXCELLENT pipes for each price point offered.
As to your question about "... were these pipes "instant classics" " Having bought several of these pipes at the time of there heyday when they were new, I never thought of them as "classics", they were just GOOD PIPES sold at a price I could afford and readily available at a local retailer.
This whole "classics" thing has interfered with so many folks enjoyment of many things and really is a marketing/social statement so many of us fall prey to. Romance ALWAYS sells and as my father who was a Chef used to say:" I'm not selling the steak, I'm selling the SIZZLE". As far as the "classics" becoming that over time, it's all up to the viewpoint of the person who's defining them as such. The convinced Dunhill fan only sees certain eras of this firms product as worthwhile, the pre=Lane era Charatan person says these are better than the Lane era pipes and the Lane era says they are better than today's ( I'm a Charatan fan but have only Lane era pipes , two dozen, so can't speak to pre or post Lane pipes and WON"T as I have no knowledge of them) and it goes the same for Comoy's, GBD, BBB etc.
Basically, buy what APPEALS to you, what you can AFFORD and stop worrying about the "romance" aspect of the pipe. Remember, we are basically taking a piece of wood that someone has shaped, putting a dried weed in it, lighting it on fire and injesting the smoke from the weed into our bodies. It's called Smoking Twisted Evil Twisted Evil
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geordiebooker

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PostSubject: Re: What are/will be the "classics" of the future?   Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:15 pm


I never actually asked what to spend my cash on ....just looking for other perspectives....I can't be the only pipe smoker in my thirties wondering about the older generations knowledgeable take on this ......Can I ????
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