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 What are/will be the "classics" of the future?

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Puff Daddy
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PostSubject: Re: What are/will be the "classics" of the future?   Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:44 am

Well, I'll agree that it's a convoluted defining process at best, given the dynamics of the industry.

How do you deal with Ser Jacopo and Castello who turn out some amazing, high quality work while refusing to let the individual carver be identified, and argue in the same breathe W.O. Larsen who purposely acknowledged the likes of Teddy and Jess and Benni when they turned out the top shelf stuff? To whom goes the credit? Who is the master, and master of what? Business, or carving?

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sisyphus

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PostSubject: Re: What are/will be the "classics" of the future?   Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:45 am

Puff Daddy wrote:

PS, Cavicchi is hardly THE master of Italian pipe carving.

Anyone who mates a molded stem to their pipe can't be called a master. Cavicchi makes good midgrade pipes, just like 95% of the other Italian makers. I would put Tonino, Maurizio and Baldo out there as Italians who make a nicer pipe than Cavicchi.
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PostSubject: Re: What are/will be the "classics" of the future?   Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:54 am

sisyphus wrote:
I would put Tonino, Maurizio and Baldo out there as Italians who make a nicer pipe than Cavicchi.

I've never handled a Jacono (that I can recall) but I wholeheartedly agree with you on the others.

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sisyphus

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PostSubject: Re: What are/will be the "classics" of the future?   Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:06 pm

and even so, regarding the Italians:

I don't believe in the existence of an "Italian school". The Italians put their twist on English shapes, the same as the North Americans and Eastern Europeans are putting their twist on shapes from the Danish school. Nothing about Italian pipe design warrants giving them the distinction of having their own school. There is nothing that is unique to Italian pipes.

Don't get me wrong, I love the Castellos I have. They're great smokers and are nicely finished. Still a midgrade despite the price tag as far as I'm concerned, and variations on English design, not their own school.

This is a whole different thread, what schools of pipe design exist? Austrian, Meerschaum, Anglo-Franco (because the French are every bit as responsible for there being an English school as the English are), and Danish. That's it really.
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Zeno Marx

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PostSubject: Re: What are/will be the "classics" of the future?   Tue Mar 12, 2013 1:59 pm

sisyphus wrote:
Don't get me wrong, I love the Castellos I have. They're great smokers and are nicely finished. Still a midgrade despite the price tag as far as I'm concerned, and variations on English design, not their own school.
What do you consider a high grade? I agree that Castellos are on the overpriced side, but it caused me to wonder what an Italian high grade might be.
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Kyle Weiss

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PostSubject: Re: What are/will be the "classics" of the future?   Tue Mar 12, 2013 2:07 pm

I think the original post managed to innocently ninja-troll the conversation, which I've noticed is at least getting less myopic to "who makes the best pipes" to "which group of similar individuals collectively make the best pipes." Laughing

I also think in the Artisan Pipe Era, which is the most profound change in pipe making and buying we share with our smoking forefathers, you cannot separate the little guys from the big guys. They're standing just as tall and in in the limelight today. The game is different, and thus, the future will be different when we look back on today, twenty to forty years from now. Hopefully some of us will be still arguing and shaking our canes at one another like proper old codgers. I love you

Cool


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PostSubject: Re: What are/will be the "classics" of the future?   Tue Mar 12, 2013 5:53 pm

de gustibus non disputandem.

Evil or Very Mad

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Harlock999

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PostSubject: Re: What are/will be the "classics" of the future?   Tue Mar 12, 2013 9:51 pm

sisyphus wrote:
Nothing about Italian pipe design warrants giving them the distinction of having their own school. There is nothing that is unique to Italian pipes.

Nothing, except being instantly recognizable from across a room...
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PostSubject: Re: What are/will be the "classics" of the future?   Tue Mar 12, 2013 9:58 pm

cheers

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PostSubject: Re: What are/will be the "classics" of the future?   Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:04 pm

The violin was designed by the year 1560.

It's been tweaked since, but remains what it's been for 450 years.

That said, you can recognise a French, German or Italian violin at a glance.

How many artists have re-designed the human body ?

Or felt any need to ?

Shees . . .

What a Face


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Kyle Weiss

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PostSubject: Re: What are/will be the "classics" of the future?   Wed Mar 13, 2013 2:19 pm

Harlock999 wrote:
sisyphus wrote:
Nothing about Italian pipe design warrants giving them the distinction of having their own school. There is nothing that is unique to Italian pipes.

Nothing, except being instantly recognizable from across a room...

'Lock nailed it...which is why I'm not a fan of Italian pipes--if they were just run-of-the-mill hack pipes, they'd not be so distinct in my mind. My lack of affinity for owning one has nothing to do with their talent or poise. I also think Lamborghini is one of the most ridiculous-looking cars on the planet, but they still sell (and perform), oddly enough. *shrug*

I also see no hope of redesigning my body to be a human Lamborghini when I'm more productive being a beat-up old Toyota 4Runner (in body and soul...keep on rackin' up the miles til I can't no mo') Laughing
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Puff Daddy
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PostSubject: Re: What are/will be the "classics" of the future?   Wed Mar 13, 2013 2:44 pm

I always pictured you as more of a Gremlin, Kyle Sad

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PostSubject: Re: What are/will be the "classics" of the future?   Wed Mar 13, 2013 2:57 pm

...maybe an AMC Gremlin shell on a 4x4 chassis... not even sure what it would fit on... an old CJ7 frame, maybe? *shrug* Laughing That'd be a rolling terror! Twisted Evil
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Harlock999

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PostSubject: Re: What are/will be the "classics" of the future?   Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:37 pm

That and introducing acrylic stems, wider airways, and elevating the art of rustication to it's highest level.
Italians, that is... Cool
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gravel

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PostSubject: Re: What are/will be the "classics" of the future?   Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:44 pm

Kyle Weiss wrote:
Harlock999 wrote:
sisyphus wrote:
Nothing about Italian pipe design warrants giving them the distinction of having their own school. There is nothing that is unique to Italian pipes.

Nothing, except being instantly recognizable from across a room...

I also think Lamborghini...
are now German.
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tech2576

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PostSubject: Re: What are/will be the "classics" of the future?   Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:02 pm

Kyle Weiss wrote:
...maybe an AMC Gremlin shell on a 4x4 chassis... not even sure what it would fit on... an old CJ7 frame, maybe? *shrug* Laughing That'd be a rolling terror! Twisted Evil

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Puff Daddy
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PostSubject: Re: What are/will be the "classics" of the future?   Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:08 pm

tech2576 wrote:
Kyle Weiss wrote:
...maybe an AMC Gremlin shell on a 4x4 chassis... not even sure what it would fit on... an old CJ7 frame, maybe? *shrug* Laughing That'd be a rolling terror! Twisted Evil


cheers

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PostSubject: Re: What are/will be the "classics" of the future?   Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:16 pm

Quote :
Radice, Il Ceppo, Amorelli. All three make a reasonably priced pipe, can't be called artisan, and might have a following down the road.

The question concerned pipes that would become "classics" in the future.

The "artisianal" aspect has NO bearing on this. People today enthusiastically collect old Comoys, GBDs, Dunhills, Sasienis, Parkers, Petersons . . . all of which were "mass-produced." The only limit on the mass involved was the production efficiency of the machinery.

They are still "Classics" despite this.

Several folks here collect Stanwells, for that matter.

The "artist" BS hijacks an intelligent appreciation of who an artist is and what he does.

IMO

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PostSubject: Re: What are/will be the "classics" of the future?   Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:24 pm

Yes, I blew it with my first comment...

The original question was:
Quote :
My question is this:

What newly introduced brands do you think will become the classics of the future....I'm not talking arstisan made pipes here, I mean full on mass produced pipes that are value for money, are well made and above all smoke well.

I think higher grade Peterson's will remain collectible in future years.
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PostSubject: Re: What are/will be the "classics" of the future?   Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:28 pm

Newly Introduced (good catch there) ?

Guys just getting established.

Craps shoot.

Because everybody you've heard of is probably "established."

Catch 22.

What a Face
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MisterE
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PostSubject: Re: What are/will be the "classics" of the future?   Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:00 am

That was a fun read! Laughing

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PostSubject: Re: What are/will be the "classics" of the future?   Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:47 am

Yak wrote:
Newly Introduced (good catch there) ?

Guys just getting established.

Craps shoot.

Because everybody you've heard of is probably "established."

Catch 22.

What a Face

I can't read apparently...
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PostSubject: Re: What are/will be the "classics" of the future?   Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:52 am

Either that or I can't think.

It's not a catch-22 ? scratch

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geordiebooker

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PostSubject: Re: What are/will be the "classics" of the future?   Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:07 pm

Well....I quite enjoyed that.
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monbla256

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PostSubject: Re: What are/will be the "classics" of the future?   Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:19 pm

As usual, no real answer, just depends on WHO you ask and WHAT THEY think Twisted Evil
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