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 Dunhill "Patent" Pipes

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alfredo_buscatti

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Age : 62
Location : Piedmont, North Carolina
Registration date : 2007-12-17

PostSubject: Dunhill "Patent" Pipes   Sun Jun 23, 2013 11:16 pm

As estates these pipes seem to have extra value. What was patented? Why was this discontinued? (Yes, I did a search but found only one thread that didn't answer the question.)
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MisterE
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PostSubject: Re: Dunhill "Patent" Pipes   Sun Jun 23, 2013 11:34 pm

Patent pipes are those which have the patent numbers stamped on them. They stopped printing the patent number on them in the mid-1950's. Any pipe with the numbers on it is pre-1955 or so.

Oil cured wood, too.

http://www.folloder.com/pdf/1341418.pdf

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alfredo_buscatti

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Age : 62
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PostSubject: Re: Dunhill "Patent" Pipes   Mon Jun 24, 2013 8:32 am

I've been reading and in the absence of any explanation, Dunhill stamped a patent number on their pipes because they were patenting the process they used, in general. A patent is usually sought when the inventor wishes to make his design proprietary, and the number usually protects others from using that design, which at that point is unique. This was not the case with Dunhill, who appears to have patented their entire process.

The only unique thing about Dunhills was the oil curing; maybe it is that that is patented.
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PostSubject: Re: Dunhill "Patent" Pipes   Mon Jun 24, 2013 9:33 am

Pipedia: Charatan History wrote:
Being the undisputed No. 1 in English pipemaking, Charatan was approached by Alfred Dunhill who was unsatisfied with the quality of the pipes he imported from France. During 1908 - 1910 Dunhill bought pipes from Charatan paying exorbitant prices to ensure he had some of the very best pipes for sale in England. In 1910 he lured away Joel Sasieni, one of Charatan's best carvers, and opened his own small pipe workshop on 28 Duke Street.

I would guess that you could get the patent number from some source and get a copy of the patent from the GB patent office.

If you read the Charatan history by the women who often visited there, the ranking by the Charatan carvers is an interesting read.  It pans some of the brands we cherish these days but times also change. They certainly had a biased view but they also knew the art better than most.

While patents give a cache of sort, I think that being purveyor to the monarchy was the supreme cache. I am guessing the last to have that wasn't Dunhill.

Are Dunhills solid, well made, consistent pipes?  Certainly.  Are they supreme in the art?  Maybe at times.  There are so many makers, carvers, whatever that the very best in pipes is a transient beast. Value now is often a function of rarity as much as quality. Consistency is a prize and that seems the best claim that can be made as a long term honor and Dunhill seems there at or near the top.

Being collectors means a variety of things.  From the bottom up it probably bottoms with Franklin Mint collectables.  People fit colllectability into their own niche -- for better or worse. 

Got to admit its all fun though.  Keeps the juices flowing.
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monbla256

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PostSubject: Re: Dunhill "Patent" Pipes   Mon Jun 24, 2013 10:40 am

alfredo_buscatti wrote:
I've been reading and in the absence of any explanation, Dunhill stamped a patent number on their pipes because they were patenting the process they used, in general. A patent is usually sought when the inventor wishes to make his design proprietary, and the number usually protects others from using that design, which at that point is unique. This was not the case with Dunhill, who appears to have patented their entire process.

The only unique thing about Dunhills was the oil curing; maybe it is that that is patented.

The current definition is this:  
"A patent (/ˈpætənt/ or /ˈpeɪtənt/) is a set of exclusive rights granted by a sovereign state to an inventor or their assignee for a limited period of time, in exchange for the public disclosure of the invention. An invention is a solution to a specific technological problem, and may be a product or a process.[1]:17 Patents are a form of intellectual property."

which would cover the SPECIFIC manner that Dunhill cured and produced it's pipes at that time. Since they stopped this process after 1955 or so they've not used the patent no's since then. Edward's has oil cured their pipes as have others, but each has done it with different methods. Bottom line is the pipe does smoke differently ( I find oil cured Algerian briar to be very much preferred by me) than those not processed in this manner.
The patent no also helps in definitively dating Dunhill's Twisted Evil
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MisterE
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PostSubject: Re: Dunhill "Patent" Pipes   Mon Jun 24, 2013 12:55 pm

Did you read the link I posted? That's what's patented.

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alfredo_buscatti

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PostSubject: Re: Dunhill "Patent" Pipes   Mon Jun 24, 2013 1:47 pm

Yes,, thank you, I did read it. But after Dunhill stopped oil curing Bill Ashton-Taylor restarted it, largely tweaked. Has anyone ever demonstrated that oil curing is better, or do we have to rely for that judgment from the "yes, verily" Dunhill patent geezers?
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monbla256

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PostSubject: Re: Dunhill "Patent" Pipes   Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:03 pm

alfredo_buscatti wrote:
Yes,, thank you, I did read it. But after Dunhill stopped oil curing Bill Ashton-Taylor restarted it, largely tweaked. Has anyone ever demonstrated that oil curing is better, or do we have to rely for that judgment from the "yes, verily" Dunhill patent geezers?

I don't think anyone can say one method of treating and producing pipes is Factually "better', merely what they feel based on their taste/smoking style/'bac preferences. I do find some difference in an oil-cured pipe over a non cured and enjoy it's differences with the 'bacs I smoke a bit more than a non-cured one. But that's just MY preference not some hard n fast proof that they ARE. Find some of both, try 'em and decide for yourself. Razz
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docwatson

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PostSubject: Re: Dunhill "Patent" Pipes   Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:59 pm

YES, oil cured Dunhill pipes smoke better!!!! I'm an old Dunhill Patent Geezer!!! lol!

Only kidding really. As much as I love my old oil cured Patent Dunhill pipes, many of my Air Cured Italian pipes smoke just as well.

Like tobacco I guess it's very much personal preference IMO.
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Zeno Marx

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Registration date : 2010-06-26

PostSubject: Re: Dunhill "Patent" Pipes   Mon Jun 24, 2013 3:18 pm

Dunhill takes a beating by a lot of people.  That anti-status thing so many of us have in our reflexes.  I've owned A LOT of Dunhills.  My 2nd or 3rd pipe was a Dunhill because the shop was going out of business and dumping them for $50.  I worked for a Dunhill fanatic who was also an addicted trader.  He traded more pipes than people use napkins at a good BBQ joint, and I was the beneficiary of his shorter attention span on a lot of occasions.  I don't have any love affair with the Dunhill name, but I can also say that I have a fair deal of respect for their products.  Much of their older paraphernalia is of high quality, and as for brands, Dunhill probably has the highest greatness in smoking ratio I've ever encountered.  In other words, percentage wise, more Dunhills have been great smokers than not.  Just about every Dunhill I've owned and smoked was a great smoker.  I'd say I have good luck, but 1)  I don't have good luck  2)  too many Dunhills smoked for it to be a matter of luck to have that many good ones.  While some Dunhills are outrageously priced by my measures, I also am surprised by how many great deals there are in the estate market.  Comparatively, they're worth the money if you ask me.

I now own a single Dunhill.  It's a cripple.  It's my camping and hiking pipe.  Phenomenal smoker.  I only own a dozen pipes, which is why I don't own more Dunhills (and though I think they can be a great value on the estate market, I don't spend that kind of money on pipes anymore).
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Harlock999

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Location : Los Angeles
Registration date : 2010-10-22

PostSubject: Re: Dunhill "Patent" Pipes   Mon Jun 24, 2013 10:55 pm

It's nice that the presence of patent numbers on Dunhills is at least a known indicator of a certain age. I tend to think that the reg. numbers on Castello pipes is often misrepresented by some dealers, as I think they continued using that stamp occasionally, possibly into the '80's or '90's.
It's only a theory, but I've seen enough examples that had reg.#'s in conjunction with other features that don't seem to jibe with 1950's era pipes. It can certainly be an indicator of an older pipe, but the mere presence of the reg.# stamp would not convince of a Castello's vintage.

I have one patent number Dunhill LB, also known as my Frankenstein's monster pipe...
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Smoker99

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Location : Florissant, Mo
Registration date : 2010-08-23

PostSubject: Re: Dunhill "Patent" Pipes   Tue Jun 25, 2013 1:52 am

Yeh, the patent represents an older pipe. Ones I have are good smokers. I think they benefit from just, number one, the briar being above ground over fifty years now, a better work ethic then which resulted in a better made pipe, Algerian briar, and possibly oil curing.  I think oil curing has benefits on the front end of ownership, but quickly diminish in 10-20 bowls. I have a few oil cured von Ercks, and they are much smoother to smoke in the beginning, but after a while you don't notice it.
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docwatson

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Location : Central Massachusetts and midcoast Maine
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PostSubject: Re: Dunhill "Patent" Pipes   Tue Jun 25, 2013 7:05 am

Smoker99 wrote:
  I think oil curing has benefits on the front end of ownership, but quickly diminish in 10-20 bowls. I have a few oil cured von Ercks, and they are much smoother to smoke in the beginning, but after a while you don't notice it.

Well said, 99, that's my experience as well.Very Happy
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riff raff

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Location : Western Maryland
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PostSubject: Re: Dunhill "Patent" Pipes   Tue Jun 25, 2013 8:40 am

Interesting info, I also did not know why those Dunhills were patented.  One maker (Taylor?) who oil-cured said the oil curing process was only a benefit in the first few bowls.  I own four Taylor Ashtons, but they were all estates, so someone else had the benefit of those virgin smokes.  There are some Taylor pipes with patent numbers, I assume that was for Bill's oil curing process?
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