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Slow Puffs
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PostSubject: MLB a Mess   Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:48 pm

Why the heck can't the commish get it right with peds?

This is a disgrace to sports. I'm a Red Sox fan and even though they are having a respectable year, this PED's thing hangs over Baseball and I can't follow them. Ken Collins (RIP) and JT and I used to have loads of fun posting on our teams, but this crap needs to be settle Twisted Evil 
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PostSubject: Re: MLB a Mess   Thu Aug 08, 2013 8:32 pm

It's going to take a while for the dust to settle on this, if it ever does.

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docwatson

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PostSubject: Re: MLB a Mess   Thu Aug 08, 2013 8:41 pm

Slow Puffs wrote:
Why the heck can't the commish get it right with peds?
This is a disgrace to baseball. 
I agree totally, what would you recommend as a solution?
Maybe a new commish.

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Slow Puffs
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PostSubject: Re: MLB a Mess   Fri Aug 09, 2013 9:05 am

docwatson wrote:
Slow Puffs wrote:
Why the heck can't the commish get it right with peds?
This is a disgrace to baseball. 
I agree totally, what would you recommend as a solution?
Maybe a new commish.

Question 

It likely would help to have a new Commish but the Players Union need to wake up as well. A-Rod gets a suspension and the Union challenges it so he's eligible to play. A-Rod is past his prime. Meanwhile, the NYY are looking forward to the suspension so they can drop his huge salary. Too many parties with vested interest to keep the peds going, or so it seems.
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PostSubject: Re: MLB a Mess   Fri Aug 09, 2013 9:28 am

You are right on the money. And how can baseball afford to pay these guys that are on the injured list for months while they give nothing back to the teams???
I always believed in Pay for Performance. No play, no pay.
Organizations put so much into the players salaries that they can't even let pitchers throw a complete game for fear that they will injure themselves. So now we have the 100 pitch player. What a bunch of crap.
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PostSubject: Re: MLB a Mess   Fri Aug 09, 2013 10:07 am

Ken Caminiti wrote:
I've made a ton of mistakes. I don't think using steroids is one of them.

Look at all the money in the game. A kid got $252 million. So I can't say, 'Don't do it,' not when the guy next to you is as big as a house and he's going to take your job and make the money.

It's no secret what's going on in baseball. At least half the guys are using [steroids]. They talk about it. They joke about it with each other.
What a Face 
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Kyle Weiss

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PostSubject: Re: MLB a Mess   Fri Aug 09, 2013 3:21 pm

You can't expect injured guys to not get paid. Especially if they were injured while training or playing an official game. If they got drunk and ran from the cops, wrapped their Bugatti around a tree and want to get paid for being on the DL, well...no. Plus, this isn't the NBA/NFL, so that's a less likely situation. Laughing

A-Roid's ego and quest for professional relevance is fueling this, for sure. His expiration date is quickly arriving...not too many 40-year-old superstars out there. Do I blame him? No. But do I blame him? Yes. He took a risk. And there it is. No way the player's union's gonna let those unpaid dues go undisputed, either. Of course they're gonna represent him.

I appreciate the MLB's want to keep the sport clean. I can only speculate how and why they're doing this, but baseball's my sport. I like it as classy, decent and real as it could be. 🤷

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PostSubject: Re: MLB a Mess   Fri Aug 09, 2013 4:38 pm

They let it ride with the lid on for 40 years. NOW it's some big deal ?

The guys playing the game today have grown up with 'roids being the norm for two generations.

If they would have had accurate testing and really wanted to drop the hammer by 1990, baseball would have had to shut down and wait while the 10-year-olds grew up.

Same with football. Nature does not produce 350 lb. linemen. Period. So the new rule is you've gotta get all that in before you reach the NFL.

Unimpressive in the extreme.

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Kyle Weiss

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PostSubject: Re: MLB a Mess   Fri Aug 09, 2013 11:43 pm

Yak wrote:
They let it ride with the lid on for 40 years. NOW it's some big deal ?

The guys playing the game today have grown up with 'roids being the norm for two generations.

If they would have had accurate testing and really wanted to drop the hammer by 1990, baseball would have had to shut down and wait while the 10-year-olds grew up.

Same with football. Nature does not produce 350 lb. linemen. Period. So the new rule is you've gotta get all that in before you reach the NFL.

Unimpressive in the extreme.

What a Face
So true.

I guess that's why I kind of like the idea of any "clean up." Maybe it'll stay an idea, but...I tell ya what, from what I understand, even as "pure" as we think of sports 50 years ago, what guys were using and abusing on teams would make people's heads spin (literally) today. Laughing

Let's just toss out cocaine bags rather than chalk bags at the pitcher's mound. Twisted Evil

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Slow Puffs
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PostSubject: Re: MLB a Mess   Sat Aug 10, 2013 6:52 am

Say it ain't so Shocked 

Quote :
Pitching under the influence of LSD, Ellis pitched a no-hitter against the Padres on June 12, 1970. He threw a no-hitter despite being unable to feel the ball or see the batter or catcher clearly.[24] Ellis said his catcher Jerry May wore reflective tape on his fingers which helped him to see May's signals. Ellis walked eight batters and struck out six, and he was aided by excellent fielding plays from second baseman Bill Mazeroski and center fielder Matty Alou.[25]

As Ellis recounted it:


I can only remember bits and pieces of the game. I was psyched. I had a feeling of euphoria. I was zeroed in on the [catcher's] glove, but I didn't hit the glove too much. I remember hitting a couple of batters, and the bases were loaded two or three times. The ball was small sometimes, the ball was large sometimes, sometimes I saw the catcher, sometimes I didn't. Sometimes, I tried to stare the hitter down and throw while I was looking at him. I chewed my gum until it turned to powder. I started having a crazy idea in the fourth inning that Richard Nixon was the home plate umpire, and once I thought I was pitching a baseball to Jimi Hendrix, who to me was holding a guitar and swinging it over the plate. They say I had about three to four fielding chances. I remember diving out of the way of a ball I thought was a line drive. I jumped, but the ball wasn't hit hard and never reached me.[26]
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docwatson

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PostSubject: Re: MLB a Mess   Sat Aug 10, 2013 8:14 am

Wow SP,
I remember those days well but I guess I led a sheltered life not realizing that not only kids on the street were using that stuff but also our sports figures. As interesting as this is, it's still disappointing. Back then they were using mind altering drugs, today they are using performance enhancing drugs. Personally I don't think the mind altering drugs helped their performances, where today they are setting new records that should not be recognized. But how do we know without constantly testing athletes to see if they are indeed using banned substances? Many of today's athletes are not such wonderful role models for our youngsters.
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Slow Puffs
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PostSubject: Re: MLB a Mess   Sat Aug 10, 2013 11:54 am

My thinking as well. Mind-altering drugs are very different. There are "random tests" in place and my sense is that the more awareness will help.

I read where the asterisk * by the players name or even for the "ped era" might happen. But I think a few well-placed life-time bans would help more.

If Pete Rose can't get in the Hall of Fame, then ineligibilty for the Hall of Fame should be a consequence with this. Strip a few more MVP awards, etc.

I think of poor Roger Maris having an * by his name. His crime was hitting more home runs than Ruth in a few more games. My, that seems silly looking back at it.
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Kyle Weiss

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PostSubject: Re: MLB a Mess   Sat Aug 10, 2013 3:36 pm

Slow Puffs wrote:
Say it ain't so Shocked 

Quote :
Pitching under the influence of LSD, Ellis pitched a no-hitter against the Padres on June 12, 1970. He threw a no-hitter despite being unable to feel the ball or see the batter or catcher clearly.[24] Ellis said his catcher Jerry May wore reflective tape on his fingers which helped him to see May's signals. Ellis walked eight batters and struck out six, and he was aided by excellent fielding plays from second baseman Bill Mazeroski and center fielder Matty Alou.[25]

As Ellis recounted it:


I can only remember bits and pieces of the game. I was psyched. I had a feeling of euphoria. I was zeroed in on the [catcher's] glove, but I didn't hit the glove too much. I remember hitting a couple of batters, and the bases were loaded two or three times. The ball was small sometimes, the ball was large sometimes, sometimes I saw the catcher, sometimes I didn't. Sometimes, I tried to stare the hitter down and throw while I was looking at him. I chewed my gum until it turned to powder. I started having a crazy idea in the fourth inning that Richard Nixon was the home plate umpire, and once I thought I was pitching a baseball to Jimi Hendrix, who to me was holding a guitar and swinging it over the plate. They say I had about three to four fielding chances. I remember diving out of the way of a ball I thought was a line drive. I jumped, but the ball wasn't hit hard and never reached me.[26]
That's...hilarious. Laughing

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Zeno Marx

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PostSubject: Re: MLB a Mess   Sat Aug 10, 2013 7:12 pm

Yak pretty much nailed it.  Both the League and the fans are disingenuous.  I don't think anyone really wants anything done about it.  What they really want is for everyone to shut up about it so they can stick their heads back in the sand.  I love the way this culture has convenient, short-lived ethical conundrums.  Heartless.  Let me know when everyone stops watching the games on TV (gotta love digital TV so they can track every time you hit that channel), stop reading the sports section, stop clicking on the websites, stop playing the fantasy leagues, and really take a stand.

PEDs are sports culture now.  It's a little late to put the paste back in the tube.  It would take real sacrifice at this point.  Tens, if not hundreds, of millions of dollars lost as a new culture was formed.  There's no going backwards, so something entirely new is really the only option.

I'm as sickened by it as anyone, but whining and bitching is really the only thing that will come out of any of this.  Too much money is involved.  The fans aren't going to walk away, and the teams aren't going to undercut their projections and Wall St. value.

Honestly, the only party involved doing their jobs are the Union.  They're defending a member and playing every legal card at their disposal.  I know it isn't popular to behave like that, but they're doing what they're paid to do.  I'm okay with that.  The League and the Yankees knew what ARod was doing.  They're complicit, and for them to now act like they need to drop the hammer?  Please.  Go fuck yourselves and your big money.  I don't like ARod.  He's slimy and arrogant, but like he said, he's protecting himself because nobody else will.  You want to support an ugly culture for entertainment and city pride? Then don't cry about it when the ugliness comes out of the sewer for a little sun.
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monbla256

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PostSubject: Re: MLB a Mess   Mon Aug 12, 2013 12:36 pm

Zeno Marx wrote:
Yak pretty much nailed it.  Both the League and the fans are disingenuous.  I don't think anyone really wants anything done about it.  What they really want is for everyone to shut up about it so they can stick their heads back in the sand.  I love the way this culture has convenient, short-lived ethical conundrums.  Heartless.  Let me know when everyone stops watching the games on TV (gotta love digital TV so they can track every time you hit that channel), stop reading the sports section, stop clicking on the websites, stop playing the fantasy leagues, and really take a stand.

PEDs are sports culture now.  It's a little late to put the paste back in the tube.  It would take real sacrifice at this point.  Tens, if not hundreds, of millions of dollars lost as a new culture was formed.  There's no going backwards, so something entirely new is really the only option.

I'm as sickened by it as anyone, but whining and bitching is really the only thing that will come out of any of this.  Too much money is involved.  The fans aren't going to walk away, and the teams aren't going to undercut their projections and Wall St. value.

Honestly, the only party involved doing their jobs are the Union.  They're defending a member and playing every legal card at their disposal.  I know it isn't popular to behave like that, but they're doing what they're paid to do.  I'm okay with that.  The League and the Yankees knew what ARod was doing.  They're complicit, and for them to now act like they need to drop the hammer?  Please.  Go fuck yourselves and your big money.  I don't like ARod.  He's slimy and arrogant, but like he said, he's protecting himself because nobody else will.  You want to support an ugly culture for entertainment and city pride?  Then don't cry about it when the ugliness comes out of the sewer for a little sun.
Zeno,
I'd have to agree with you on this and only add that these ARE NOT SPORTS, rather a BUSINESS that uses a sport to aquire it's wealth. As is the case with ALL buidness in the world today, ALL'S fair in love and PROFIT. To expect it to be anything else is _________________ Twisted Evil 
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DrumsAndBeer

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PostSubject: Re: MLB a Mess   Mon Aug 12, 2013 3:19 pm

Two words - "Guaranteed Contracts." Until Major League Baseball gets rid of them, it will be in the dumps.

For all the problems that the NFL has with their thugs, ahem (I mean players), i.e. drunk driving, assaults, domestic violence, and hey what do you know? even a potential murder conviction this year! Woohoo!, one problem the NFL doesn't have is not being able to cut a player who has a history of screwing up or under performing. If A-Roid was a NFL player he'd be at home nursing his needle wounds.
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Kyle Weiss

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PostSubject: Re: MLB a Mess   Mon Aug 12, 2013 3:46 pm

On the American side, baseball could be said to be the least offensive overall. It's still rife with problems, but there's a code that's been written (and paid) out of NBA/NFL. That makes sports no less fun to watch, if fan numbers, income, advertising, etc have anything to say about it.

There's nothing wrong with profit, but there is something wrong with exploitation of the spirit of a thing. Including profit. If money weren't involved, power will still be the next best thing. Money just gives everyone a physical thing to scrutinize. People will still be people at the end of the day, the ugly stuff included.

Some people have sports, others have ideals. Blue pill, red pill. There is no Utopia.

SO, I might as well have fun with baseball. Even with ego-douches like A-Roid.
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