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Dramatwist

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Location : California
Registration date : 2013-12-05

PostSubject: Re: Expectations   Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:03 am

"I earned my money; if I wanna be "selfish and overly-indulgent," it's still a free country.   Twisted Evil 
Isn't there some guilty pleasure you spend too much on?"

Absolutely. Your God-given right and privilege!

Best,
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SteveS

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Location : Where little cable cars climb halfway to the stars.
Registration date : 2013-11-19

PostSubject: Re: Expectations   Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:34 am

I've never spent $400 for a pipe ... haven't even come close ... but, since I began smoking pipes 40+ years ago, some of the pipes I bought in the early days would likely command that sort of price if bought new today ...

Been lucky too in adding pipes to my assortment inthat I've done well in the "estate' market ... sorta like buying a used car ... I am always on the lookout for a nice pipe at the right price ... were I in a position of need, I'd probably make more mistakes, but having about two dozen pipes, I can afford to pass on anything that doesn't fit my criteria ... earlier today for example, I saw a pipe I rather liked and might have bought, but the current owner wanted about double what I was willing to pay since I felt it would need a fair amount of restoration ... he declined my offer, I wished him well and walked away ... it would have made a nice addition to my collection, but c'est la vie ...
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SpeedyPete



Age : 73
Location : Cape Town
Registration date : 2011-01-28

PostSubject: Re: Expectations   Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:42 am

Me too have never spent more than $100 on a pipe. I do own pipes of which the retail price was much higher, for instance 2 Davidoffs which both was in the region of $450. I got them for $50 a piece, new. They do not smoke better than my $52 Savinelli Trevi. I have one Sav Punto Oro of which the retail price was $220 (I paid $95 for it). It does not smoke better than my $50 dollar Sav Pisa Canadian.

I was recently gifted a new artisan pipe by Charl Goussard of which the retail price was $230. Only now can I appreciate the price attached to such a pipe. And I'm not talking about the looks of the pipe only. I can honestly and without doubt say I've never smoked a pipe like this before.

Today is only the 4th day I'm smoking it and it delivers like a pipe which has been smoked a 1000 times. No matter which tobacco I stuff in it, it delivers. It is sweet, the draw is perfect, I just can't put it down.

I'm happy with my collection of 48 briars plus 3 Falcons and a number of cobs. I do not wish for more in this price bracket.

I do know that I want some more pipes from Charl. I've spent much, much more than $230 during this year on pipes. So what I will do next year is to buy 1 or 2 pipes from Charl. I will receive pipes of which there are no duplicates, made to my order and which I know will be excellent smokers. And I will pay for it with a smile  Very Happy 

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Growley

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Age : 42
Location : Fairhope, Al
Registration date : 2012-04-10

PostSubject: Re: Expectations   Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:29 am

Kelhammer wrote:
Ok this is a great guy. It has been explained to me by the maker that Morta is indeed very brittle and difficult to work. That the condition I see is a result of the drill breaking thru the brittle material. Knowing this does a lot for my point of view.  As a craftsman it is easy for me to understand and believe this explanation. He guarantees his pipes. I told him my concern is a wet smoking pipe.  He told me to smoke it, and if it's wet he will work with me to make it right. To make me happy.  I believe this guy will so I am going to smoke this thing, but not tonight. It's past my fun time for a work night.  I am very impressed with this reply.

Good to hear he's taking care of you. That's the kind of response I think you should expect from an artisan. Like Ocelot said, most artisan pipe makers don't want to stick you with a pipe that you're clearly not happy with. Most have pretty generous return policies. Let us know how it turns out!

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daveinlax

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Location : Wisconsin
Registration date : 2007-12-28

PostSubject: Re: Expectations   Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:46 am

Be picky! I would just send it back. Like many have said a couple of hundred bucks is a lot of money but it is a drop in the bucket in the pipe world. If this issue bugs you enough to post it on a board it always will and you will be better off getting your money back and finding the right pipe for you. I guarantee you will find it and you'll be glad you made this hard decision.
IMO the best investment for that money would be to use it to travel to a pipe show. That way you will have the opportunity to personally inspect 100's of pipes and get a feel for what your money will buy and what the hobby is all about. A bit off topic but the hardest part of collecting pipes on a budget is what not to buy. Spending money is easy, getting picky is very hard.  Shocked 
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SpeedyPete



Age : 73
Location : Cape Town
Registration date : 2011-01-28

PostSubject: Re: Expectations   Thu Dec 12, 2013 7:21 am

alfredo_buscatti wrote:




Artisan pipes don't smoke better but they look a lot better, especially on close inspection.


How many artisan pipes do you own ? Twisted Evil 
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pipe dreamer

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Age : 71
Location : fla.
Registration date : 2010-04-18

PostSubject: Re: Expectations   Tue Dec 17, 2013 6:46 pm

Hope all turns out good for you.


Last edited by pipe dreamer on Tue Dec 17, 2013 11:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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daveinlax

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Location : Wisconsin
Registration date : 2007-12-28

PostSubject: Re: Expectations   Tue Dec 17, 2013 9:33 pm

 Shocked 
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Kelhammer

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Age : 43
Location : North East Indiana
Registration date : 2012-07-06

PostSubject: Re: Expectations   Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:55 pm

Well I have been sick for nearly two weeks now. Broke down and went to the doctor today. This being the case I have only managed to smoke this pipe twice. Both times it has gurgled at about the half way point of the pipe. I have thought a lot on this and the bottom line is I expected a better job for the money. Brittle material or not I know with a good sharp drill and good technique this type of break out should be avoidable. In hind sight I suspect this is the result of hurried work.
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rothnh



Location : Midcoast Maine
Registration date : 2012-08-26

PostSubject: Re: Expectations   Thu Dec 19, 2013 9:31 pm

Kelhammer, I do hope you are sending this pipe back to the pipe maker so he/she can make it right.

Please let us know how this works out for you.

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SpeedyPete



Age : 73
Location : Cape Town
Registration date : 2011-01-28

PostSubject: Re: Expectations   Fri Dec 20, 2013 1:09 am

Kelhammer wrote:
Well I have been sick for nearly two weeks now. Broke down and went to the doctor today.

Well, if the problem with the pipe is effecting you in such a way, you must insist on your money back. You can't afford to risk your life for a pipe. Twisted Evil Twisted Evil 
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Idlefellow

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Location : The Kansas Prairie
Registration date : 2009-02-24

PostSubject: Re: Expectations   Mon Dec 23, 2013 11:17 am

The fact that it's a difficult material to work with is no excuse. Many materials, from wood to marble to diamonds, are found to have flaws or are ruined during processing. Doesn't make it OK to sell a flawed final product. That said, sounds like the maker is willing to stand behind it, as he should. You are the final and only judge, and if you are displeased in any way with the product you are entitled to a replacement or a full refund. Good luck to you!
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Cartaphilus

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Age : 63
Location : East Texas
Registration date : 2011-12-15

PostSubject: Re: Expectations   Mon Dec 23, 2013 11:37 am

Without trying to point the finger at anyone I know gurgle can be caused by a number of things, one, improper packing and I have been guilty of it myself from time to time.
Not seeing the drilling of the draft hole I wouldn't think that just a bit of break out would cause a gurgle, it would have to be a restriction in the draft hole but, I'm no expert either. I would, if the carver will give you this time, try and smoke it more to make positive that it is the pipe that is causing your problem. Or if your just too sick to, see if he'll take it back for inspection. Of course this is all up to you and in no way am I telling you what you should or shouldn't do.
In either way I hope you and the carver can work it out smoothly to benefit you both.
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SpeedyPete



Age : 73
Location : Cape Town
Registration date : 2011-01-28

PostSubject: Re: Expectations   Mon Dec 23, 2013 12:24 pm

Cartaphilus wrote:
Without trying to point the finger at anyone I know gurgle can be caused by a number of things, one, improper packing and I have been guilty of it myself from time to time.
Not seeing the drilling of the draft hole I wouldn't think that just a bit of break out would cause a gurgle, it would have to be a restriction in the draft hole but, I'm no expert either. I would, if the carver will give you this time, try and smoke it more to make positive that it is the pipe that is causing your problem. Or if your just too sick to, see if he'll take it back for inspection. Of course this is all up to you and in no way am I telling you what you should or shouldn't do.
In either way I hope you and the carver can work it out smoothly to benefit you both.

Bro', I find that 90% or more of the time gurgling in my pipes are caused by moisture at the tip of the tenon. I have no pipes which suffer from moisture in the heel which causes gurgling.

So, if Kelhammers pipe does gurgle, the easiest wat to find whether the gurgle is stem/tenon related is to push a pipe cleaner no further than the tenon. If the gurgling stops, then it's not in the heel. If it's still there, push pipe cleaner all the way into the bowl. If that's the only way to stop the gurgling, the problem obviously is in the bowl and he should return the pipe.

If I'm in the dark about this, please lead me into the light!! Smile 
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Cartaphilus

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Age : 63
Location : East Texas
Registration date : 2011-12-15

PostSubject: Re: Expectations   Mon Dec 23, 2013 10:05 pm

Pete, Again I'm no expert but, from my understanding a gurgle caused by pipe construction can be caused by several things. One being a tobacco chamber/bowl being drilled below the draft hole giving moisture a place to collect. Two a restriction in the draft hole like poor transition between shank and stem draft holes causing a turbulence of air in the shank giving moisture a place to collect. There may be others but, personally I can't see why a small break out of material at the draft hole tobacco chamber could cause moisture to collect there. If any of the professional pipe carvers can correct me please do. Again, I do not claim to be an expert and this is only what I've learn from my studies and research on the making of pipes. I restore pipes, I'm no carver by any means.
This doesn't mean that it is not gurgling from some other problem, just that I don't see how the break out could be causing it.
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cigrmaster

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Age : 59
Registration date : 2012-06-15

PostSubject: Re: Expectations   Fri Dec 27, 2013 1:10 am

I would definitely make the pipe maker take the pipe back and either give you your money back or make another attempt on a new pipe. I would not let him try to fix it. 250.00 is not a lot for an artisan made pipe but it is still a good amount of money and no one should be expected to except a faulty pipe.

" In my opinion, that's just paying for some name, reputation, collector's value or ego."

Dramatwist, until you have smoked a Rad Davis, or Brian Ruthenberg or Bruce Weaver or Scott Thile or many other artisans of that quality then you really have no business commenting on if those pipes are worth the money.


The smoking experience of those types of pipes is something that you have to experience before you comment on it. Of course you are entitled to your opinion, but your opinion is not valid until you have smoked those kinds of pipes. If you have never experienced a Rad Davis pipe then how can you say it is not worth the money? That is like saying spending 8 dollars a pound for a good rib eye steak is a waste of money when you can buy a piece of chuck steak for 3.00 a pound but you have never tasted the rib eye, think about it.




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rothnh



Location : Midcoast Maine
Registration date : 2012-08-26

PostSubject: Re: Expectations   Fri Dec 27, 2013 12:54 pm

I have to agree with Harris in his post above here, but I also agree with Dramatwist's view.

My pipe collection ranges from low end to high end and I enjoy them all.

I simply don't retain any pipes that are not a joy to smoke.   Fortunately, that hasn't happened often and when it does, it's not hard to move the pipe.   I also have a friend who's unloaded various high end artisan pipes because he was disappointed in them -- in fact, he's in the process of getting rid of a pipe right now that's valued at more than $600 on the restored estates market and I doubt he will have any difficulty in selling it.

For me, (aside from the strictly collector standpoint which can skew this argument), quality artisan (and some higher end machine made) pipes compare to a Mercedes or BMW, while fine smoking lower end pipes compare to a Toyota Corolla.  Fine burners from both ends and in between will get you there -- and arguments are valid to those who argue for either end of the spectrum -- it's simply a differentiation of views on value; value can be quite personal.
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gravel

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Age : 43
Location : Oregon
Registration date : 2011-12-07

PostSubject: Re: Expectations   Fri Dec 27, 2013 1:22 pm

Smoke what you like and like what you smoke. Support others who find the same enjoyment from their pipes regardless if they paid $40 or $300 for their pipe (2013 dollars lol).
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cigrmaster

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Age : 59
Registration date : 2012-06-15

PostSubject: Re: Expectations   Fri Dec 27, 2013 2:56 pm

roth, I have smoked plenty of pipes that in todays market would sell for up to 1500.00, back when I was smoking them in 2000 and 2001 they retailed for up 900.00. None of them smoked as good as my Rad's or my other American artisan pipes I own today so price is definitely not the determining factor if a pipe will be a great smoker.  I once owned two brand new Dunhill's that back in 2001 retailed for 660.00 each, I sold them both and vowed never to buy a new Dunhill again as they were decent smokers, but certainly not any where good enough for the price. I had an 95.00  Caminetto that out smoked them both. Now back then I was buying these pipes for half the wholesale price, so that 660.00 Dunhill cost me 165-175 or so as I was trading Cuban cigars for them. I would have never got to smoke those Dunhills as I would never have paid 660.00 for a pipe back then or even  now. I do understand a persons price threshold as I have one as well, but a pipe guy from another site talked me into going for quality over quantity and I bought my first Rad which changed my pipe buying and pipe smoking forever. That one pipe showed me how good a pipe with an incredible stem could out smoke all of the best pipes in my collection. I had at the time a Former( Hans Nielsen is a famous Danish carver) that retailed for 680.00 back in 2001 that while a great smoker, it still was not as good as that Rad. I ended up selling that pipe and all the others in my collection at the time to buy only American artisan pipes because of the way they smoked. I was like most of the guys here, I would look for a great looking pipe for 100.00 or under and was happy. That one Rad basically wrecked my entire collection and I was not happy smoking any of my other pipes( Ferndowns, Upshalls, Ardor, Caminettos, Mastro De Paja, Don Carlos, estate Dunhill, Lane Era Charatans, Ashton, Savinelli, GBD, Sasieni  higher end Winslows, so the collection had some pretty nice pieces at the time. After that first new Rad, I began buying estate Rad's for the 200-250 range, then I took a shot at some other American artisan estates like Scott Thile and fell in love with his work. I bought my estate Thile for 250.00 and would rather have that pipe than 10, 75 dollar pipes. The difference in smoking quality is that much different to my tastes. So now I own way less pipes but to my tastes much better pipes.

I forgot to add that I am a pipe smoker and not a collector as I never buy a pipe with the thought of how much it will be worth down the road as I could care less.
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Kelhammer

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Age : 43
Location : North East Indiana
Registration date : 2012-07-06

PostSubject: Re: Expectations   Fri Dec 27, 2013 6:29 pm

I smoked some PS LNF thru this pipe last night. I used 3 pipe cleaners. The gurgle would still persist unless pushed clear to the end.
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Brewdude

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Age : 65
Location : Near the Emerald city
Registration date : 2011-05-04

PostSubject: Re: Expectations   Fri Dec 27, 2013 8:53 pm

Kelhammer wrote:
I smoked some PS LNF thru this pipe last night. I used 3 pipe cleaners.  The gurgle would still persist unless pushed clear to the end.

Totally unacceptable! The pipemaker really needs to correct this.

Send it back!





Cheers,

RR
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SpeedyPete



Age : 73
Location : Cape Town
Registration date : 2011-01-28

PostSubject: Re: Expectations   Fri Dec 27, 2013 11:57 pm

Kelhammer wrote:
I smoked some PS LNF thru this pipe last night. I used 3 pipe cleaners.  The gurgle would still persist unless pushed clear to the end.

Get rid of that pipe as soon as you can. You will never enjoy smoking it, with or without a gurgle. Ask the guy to make you a briar pipe instead.
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SpeedyPete



Age : 73
Location : Cape Town
Registration date : 2011-01-28

PostSubject: Re: Expectations   Sat Dec 28, 2013 12:13 am

cigrmaster wrote:


" In my opinion, that's just paying for some name, reputation, collector's value or ego."

The smoking experience of those types of pipes is something that you have to experience before you comment on it. Of course you are entitled to your opinion, but your opinion is not valid until you have smoked those kinds of pipes.


I agree 100% with you bro'. I only have one artisan's pipe but that was enough to open my eyes. If I can start my collection from scratch, I certainly will have 12 artisan pipes only instead of 48 factory made pipes. And name, reputation, collector's value or ego has got nothing to do with that. Smoking my Goussard renders so much pleasure and joy that I just have to have another 2 or 3 of them. I would not believe this was possible until I experienced it myself.
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cigrmaster

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Age : 59
Registration date : 2012-06-15

PostSubject: Re: Expectations   Mon Dec 30, 2013 7:44 pm

A gurgling pipe is a pipe that has not been made correctly and needs to be returned.

Speedy, do what I did, start selling off your factory pipes and then slowly add some artisans, it did not take me that long.
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SpeedyPete



Age : 73
Location : Cape Town
Registration date : 2011-01-28

PostSubject: Re: Expectations   Wed Jan 01, 2014 9:11 am

cigrmaster wrote:
A gurgling pipe is a pipe that has not been made correctly and needs to be returned.

Speedy, do what I did, start selling off your factory pipes and then slowly add some artisans, it did not take me that long.

Yes, but how do i decide on which ones I should sell  Sad 

I do have a 109 year old silver snuff box which will bring me enough money to buy at least one very fine pipe. I also have a springbuck horn snuff box with silver trimmings and walrus tooth insert which should also render a nice amount. These two items will be going on eBay shortly.

But, thank you for the advice, I will do what you suggested  cheers 
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