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 Bowl Coatings... yes or no?

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Old Nate
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PostSubject: Bowl Coatings... yes or no?   Sat Oct 25, 2014 2:59 pm

My most recent pipe is a custom made great smoker, except for the bowl coating... I've decided I don't like them. But was looking to tap the well to see what some of you more experienced fellas think? To me, it's just a barrier between the tobacco and briar, and I dont think it's beneficial... Thoughts?
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SpeedyPete



Age : 73
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PostSubject: Re: Bowl Coatings... yes or no?   Sat Oct 25, 2014 3:28 pm

I absolutely HATE those damn coatings Evil or Very Mad

Whenever I get a pipe that's been coated, I remove it before I even think of putting tobacco in the bowl.

I've been smoking the pipe long enough to know how to break it in without the help of the maker.
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loneredtree

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PostSubject: Re: Bowl Coatings... yes or no?   Sat Oct 25, 2014 3:36 pm

My latest purchase was a Tinsky that I purchased for his web site. I was disappointed that he had coated the chamber. But, it is breaking in nicely with no flavor effects that I can tell. But so is the uncoated other one that I have

sunny .
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Zeno Marx

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PostSubject: Re: Bowl Coatings... yes or no?   Sat Oct 25, 2014 3:51 pm

No thank you. Not ever.
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d4klutz

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PostSubject: Re: Bowl Coatings... yes or no?   Sat Oct 25, 2014 3:55 pm

I have only ever received one pipe with a coating in the bowl. It broke in very well with no flavors. I was really happy with it. I don't like the taste of charring briar myself. However, I will give the bowl coating a try. If I get any flavors, I will remove it. However, I have not run across such an instance yet.
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monbla256

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PostSubject: Re: Bowl Coatings... yes or no?   Sat Oct 25, 2014 4:11 pm

I've smoked pipes with 'em and w/out and truly found NO difference as to how the pipe smoked or tasted. Case in point, my new Savinelli Silver series Pot came with a coating and it's smoked like all the rest of my Savinelli's on "break-in" when new, just fine !! I really don't think it effects the pipes smoking qualities either way. JMHO and experience after many decades of smoking new pipes! Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil ( but remember, I'm just an Old Codger who's smoked pipes since '69 so my palate is surely burned out after all the smoking I've done Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil )
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Cartaphilus

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PostSubject: Re: Bowl Coatings... yes or no?   Sat Oct 25, 2014 4:17 pm

Not all bowl coatings are equal, some granted can add a bad taste, some don't to me.
The question is which do and don't and, some people may just be sensitive to bowl coatings and some not.
The biggest reason for a bowl coating is for insurance that the pipe smoker won't burn the bowl out and the maker doesn't have to replace it. It's not used to cover up or hide things most the time as some may think, not by reputable makers.
As you all know there are pipe smokers new and old that puff way too hard and too much
on a pipe and that can lead to burnout. Should a pipe maker be held liable for a burnout
bowl because a smoker doesn't know the proper way to smoke? I don't think so and with the influx of new pipe smokers I think has promoted the bowl coating by many makers because of it. Although some bowl coatings can add a bad taste to some, I say if one doesn't like it, just sand it out (easy peasey Japanesey) but, don't expect the maker to reimburse you if you burnout the bowl prematurely by puffing away at it. Just my 2 or 3 cents. Wink
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fsu92john

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PostSubject: Re: Bowl Coatings... yes or no?   Sat Oct 25, 2014 4:43 pm

All other things being equal, I prefer no bowl coating. However, once the pipe is broken in, I don't notice any difference. I doubt I would able to identify which of my pipes came with a coating and which didn't.
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Richard Burley

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PostSubject: Re: Bowl Coatings... yes or no?   Sat Oct 25, 2014 5:05 pm

To be blunt, I think bowl coatings suck. That "burnt wood" taste when new, to me, is the only way to tell if a new pipe is made of decent aged wood or some green crap from hell. The coating masks this. You have to be a moron to need a coating to "protect" the wood when breaking in a new pipe. Just go slow and let it happen, as with any virgin.
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Old Nate
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PostSubject: Re: Bowl Coatings... yes or no?   Sat Oct 25, 2014 5:28 pm

Richard Burley wrote:
To be blunt, I think bowl coatings suck.  That "burnt wood" taste when new, to me, is the only way to tell if a new pipe is made of decent aged wood or some green crap from hell.  The coating masks this.  You have to be a moron to need a coating to "protect" the wood when breaking in a new pipe.  Just go slow and let it happen, as with any virgin.

I agree with this. To my mind, I've invested in a new broad, but I'm not allowed to fully get to know it in its truest form if there is some coating between me and my new smoking vessel. I'm sure most of the time it's not a very big deal, but I believe for now on I'm going to make sure I purchase pipes without the coating.
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Simple Man

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PostSubject: Re: Bowl Coatings... yes or no?   Sat Oct 25, 2014 7:32 pm

I sand the stuff out and put a layer of creosote in instead, I love that tar and tobacco taste. Laughing
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fishnbanjo

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PostSubject: Re: Bowl Coatings... yes or no?   Sat Oct 25, 2014 7:37 pm

I prefer it doesn't have a coating but if it does it's not the end of the world I'll load it with a quick caking tobacco with plenty of Prerique, or Latakia, to lessen any crud flavor and save my 10 y/o Stonehaven for those au naturel bowls. =Cool
banjo
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Brewdude

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PostSubject: Re: Bowl Coatings... yes or no?   Sat Oct 25, 2014 7:51 pm

NO

NO

NO

NO

Just in case I haven't made myself clear...............

BIG FAT NO!!!

Mad



Cheers,

RR
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puros_bran
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PostSubject: Re: Bowl Coatings... yes or no?   Sat Oct 25, 2014 8:06 pm

I think the "poll" would be
1. Don't care one way or the other.
2. No

I've yet to find anyone that actually prefers a coating. Some I sanded out others I just smoked. A lot of my pipes were used, err pre-owned, so I sanded to bare wood..
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riff raff

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Location : Western Maryland
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PostSubject: Re: Bowl Coatings... yes or no?   Sun Oct 26, 2014 8:02 am

After two poor experiences with coated Peterson pipes I was a big "NO-NO-NO" guy when it came to bowl coatings.

I've concluded that a number of NO-NO-NO guys really haven't tried a pipe with a gelatin style coating as used by many US and UK artisans.

BUT.....the times for me, they are a-changin....

Earlier this year I purchased a beautiful Rad Davis that was uncoated. That pipe was very frustrating to break in and I almost gave up on it.

Just recently, I purchased new Royal Oaks Briar and Chris Askwith "Hand Finished" pipes that were coated.

Both smoked incredibly well from the start with no funky tastes. Chris is getting pretty well known for his neutral bowl coating. James Adylott, who made my Royal Oaks Briar uses a gelatin and charcoal substance and I found it to also be completely neutral and in contrast to my Rad Davis, this pipe was wonderful out of the chute and just a delight.

So, now WITH THE RIGHT COATING - I am a YES-YES-YES bowl coating guy.
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Dave_In_Philly

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PostSubject: Re: Bowl Coatings... yes or no?   Sun Oct 26, 2014 9:51 am

This is a very interesting read on the topic by our own Dave Huber.
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Kyle Weiss

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Location : Reno, NV
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PostSubject: Re: Bowl Coatings... yes or no?   Sun Oct 26, 2014 4:46 pm

Greg Pease has the scuttlebutt on the subject, almost in final form:

http://pipesmagazine.com/blog/out-of-the-ashes/bowl-coatings-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-part-i/

http://pipesmagazine.com/blog/out-of-the-ashes/bowl-coatings-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-part-ii/

...as I trust the guy as a friend, knowledge-base, pipe professor and madman of the leaf et al, I came to my conclusions in rube-fashion far before he tackled this subject so directly.

Me?  I detest bowl coatings.   They've managed to cover up problems in at least one pipe I said "eff it," and smoked anyway, and at the very least, prolong the experience of, "...does the briar add-to or detract from __________ tobacco?"

I sand/wash them out if I have no choice, otherwise I kindly ask makers to omit them.  

Cool
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Cartaphilus

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PostSubject: Re: Bowl Coatings... yes or no?   Sun Oct 26, 2014 5:25 pm

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Richard Burley

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PostSubject: Re: Bowl Coatings... yes or no?   Sun Oct 26, 2014 10:04 pm

Kyle Weiss wrote:


Me?  I detest bowl coatings.   They've managed to cover up problems in at least one pipe I said "eff it," and smoked anyway, and at the very least, prolong the experience of, "...does the briar add-to or detract from __________ tobacco?"  

This, to me, is the heart of it.  For the corn cob connoisseurs out there, of which I am one, would you want Missouri Meerschaum to start coating their bowls?  Seems like a valid, if extreme, analogy.  There is something that goes on between tobacco and the material it's smoked in--and that includes clays and meerschaums, contrary to some opinions.  Coatings are a barrier to any sort of "rapport" with the tobacco.  (Porcelain doesn't count, because porcelain pipes suck big time, for every reason.)
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Old Nate
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PostSubject: Re: Bowl Coatings... yes or no?   Sun Oct 26, 2014 11:09 pm

Richard Burley wrote:
Kyle Weiss wrote:


Me?  I detest bowl coatings.   They've managed to cover up problems in at least one pipe I said "eff it," and smoked anyway, and at the very least, prolong the experience of, "...does the briar add-to or detract from __________ tobacco?"  

This, to me, is the heart of it.  For the corn cob connoisseurs out there, of which I am one, would you want Missouri Meerschaum to start coating their bowls?  Seems like a valid, if extreme, analogy.  There is something that goes on between tobacco and the material it's smoked in--and that includes clays and meerschaums, contrary to some opinions.  Coatings are a barrier to any sort of "rapport" with the tobacco.  (Porcelain doesn't count, because porcelain pipes suck big time, for every reason.)

I dedefinitely agree with this. I have one bowl coated Savinelli that was good from the get go and always smokes very well, the other coated pipes all seem to lack something compared to my cobs and uncoated bowls.
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glpease
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PostSubject: Re: Bowl Coatings... yes or no?   Mon Oct 27, 2014 12:05 am

Cartaphilus wrote:
Not all bowl coatings are equal, some granted can add a bad taste, some don't to me.
The question is which do and don't and, some people may just be sensitive to bowl coatings and some not.
The biggest reason for a bowl coating is for insurance that the pipe smoker won't burn the bowl out and the maker doesn't have to replace it. It's not used to cover up or hide things most the time as some may think, not by reputable makers. [...]

Interesting data point. A friend who does pipe restorations was recently sent a pipe made by a well-known, reputable maker, to have the coating removed, and some other things taken care of. Behind the blackness of the coating was apparently a rather dramatic fissure, filled with something "epoxy-like", and hidden behind the coating. So much for it not being used to hide things. (It surprised me to hear of it - I've always felt the same way, that reputable makers don't use coatings to hide flaws. Now that I know that it's been done at least once, by at least one maker -an ardent defender of coatings, by the way - I'm not sure I'd be so cavalier with my trust in the future.)

As for the stuff "protecting" the briar, I remain skeptical. The only two pipes I've owned that burned out were both coated with the dreaded silicate coating that I despise so much. (See the articles cited above.) Further, one pipe maker's "interesting" display of the efficacy of his bowl coatings actually served more to demonstrate the fire-retardant nature of raw briar, which was able to withstand a direct ca. 1300˚ flame for over two and a half minutes before it began to smolder. I cannot imagine a smoker generating that sort of heat, whilst still keeping a tongue in his head.

If there are flaws in the wood, no magical coating will help...

But, yeah. Overall, still not a fan, though organic coatings are transparent to the tobacco's taste, overall, and in some cases do make the break-in a little easier.
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SpeedyPete



Age : 73
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PostSubject: Re: Bowl Coatings... yes or no?   Mon Oct 27, 2014 3:31 am

Before I smoke any new pipe, I clean out the bowl thouroughly. If it's coated, I remove the coating as best as I can. I use surgical spirit and paper towels to do this.

I then leave the pipe for a day to dry out completely.

Next I use full creme sherry and paper towels to "clean" out the bowl some more. I believe the alcohol in the sherry removes some more of the coating and whatever else there might be inside the bowl. As the alcohol evaporates, the sugar in the sherry remains in the bowl.

This sugar have two advantages:

1) It helps to mask the taste of "burning" briar
2) It helps to build a cake much faster.

I've done this for many years and it's the only "coating" I recommend Twisted Evil
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Old Nate
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PostSubject: Re: Bowl Coatings... yes or no?   Mon Oct 27, 2014 7:35 am

SpeedyPete wrote:
Before I smoke any new pipe, I clean out the bowl thouroughly. If it's coated, I remove the coating as best as  I can. I use surgical spirit and paper towels to do this.

I then leave the pipe for a day to dry out completely.

Next I use full creme sherry and paper towels to "clean" out the bowl some more.  I believe the alcohol in the sherry removes some more of the coating and whatever else there might be inside the bowl.  As the alcohol evaporates, the sugar in the sherry remains in the bowl.

This sugar have two advantages:

1) It helps to mask the taste of "burning" briar
2) It helps to build a cake much faster.

I've done this for many years and it's the only "coating" I recommend Twisted Evil

This is interesting. Might look into it in the future.
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Richard Burley

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PostSubject: Re: Bowl Coatings... yes or no?   Tue Oct 28, 2014 9:16 am

Here's an e-mail just received from Peterson, in answer to my asking how they would remove their coating:

Dear Rick.
Thank you for your email.

The pipe can be sanded down to the bare wood, that is the way we would do it.

We use 280 grit sandpaper.

I hope this information is helpful.
Kind regards
Adreena Browne

Kapp & Peterson Limited
Peterson House
Pearse Street
Sallynoggin
Co. Dublin
IRELAND

Tel: +353-1-2851011
Fax: +353-1-2856593
Web: www.peterson.ie
Email: adreena@peterson.ie
cid:image003.jpg@01CEF66F.35F89790
Registered Office: Peterson House, Sallynoggin, Co. Dublin, Ireland
Registered: Dublin, Ireland - Reg. No.32027

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SpeedyPete



Age : 73
Location : Cape Town
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PostSubject: Re: Bowl Coatings... yes or no?   Tue Oct 28, 2014 9:45 am

Richard Burley wrote:
Here's an e-mail just received from Peterson, in answer to my asking how they would remove their coating:

Dear Rick.
Thank you for your email.

The pipe can be sanded down to the bare wood, that is the way we would do it.

We use 280 grit sandpaper.

I hope this information is helpful.
Kind regards
Adreena Browne

Kapp & Peterson Limited
Peterson House
Pearse Street
Sallynoggin
Co. Dublin
IRELAND

Tel: +353-1-2851011
Fax: +353-1-2856593
Web: www.peterson.ie
Email: adreena@peterson.ie
cid:image003.jpg@01CEF66F.35F89790
Registered Office: Peterson House, Sallynoggin, Co. Dublin, Ireland
Registered: Dublin, Ireland - Reg. No.32027


I wonder why they WOULD do it? Can't they just leave the bare wood bare in the first place Twisted Evil
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