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Brewdude

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Age : 64
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PostSubject: Lambics/Geuze   Tue Mar 24, 2015 8:42 pm

Huge fan here. Including and especially the most extreme dry/sour/austere styles like Cantillion.

Right now digging into some Frank Boon Oude Geuze, a l'Anciene. 7% ABV.

Not gonna go all beer geek here and spew nosing/tasting/finishing notes. It's what I do professionally, but right now just want to lay back and totally enjoy one of the best examples of this style anywhere, anytime! Frank Boon is one of the master blenders, and this does not disappoint.

Always loved Hanssens Oude Gueuze as well. When I can get it.

Cantillion however is the champion where it comes to extremes, and remains the standard by which all the others are judged. Had many offerings from them including their fruit lambics. Visited the brewery back in '94 when Jean Van der Roy was still active there, and had a personal tour.....at least as far as he took his role....

He pretty much handed my group a glass of Lambic, and bade us wander where we would! Very interesting "self guided tour".

And your favorite Lambic/Geuze?


Cheers,

RR
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DrumsAndBeer

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PostSubject: Re: Lambics/Geuze   Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:08 am

Although it's a Flemish Red, my favorite sour beer is Duchesse De Bourgogne. Love, I mean absolutley love that beer. If anything it's closer to a lambic.
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leacha

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PostSubject: Re: Lambics/Geuze   Wed Mar 25, 2015 9:27 am

Next to my first loves of stouts and porters, Belgium has some of the best beers ever. I have a few books on Belgium beer and brewing techniques in my library. Kriek is my favorite lambic although the pures and Gueuze are great too.

The Trappist style is my favorite from that country though. One of these days I plan on making a Trappist single.

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Brewdude

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PostSubject: Re: Lambics/Geuze   Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:15 pm

DrumsAndBeer wrote:
Although it's a Flemish Red, my favorite sour beer is Duchesse De Bourgogne. Love, I mean absolutley love that beer. If anything it's closer to a lambic.

My go-to sour red has always been Rodenbach. I'll have to look for the one you mentioned.


Cheers,

RR
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DireWolf

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PostSubject: Re: Lambics/Geuze   Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:24 pm

Cascade Brewing in PDX does all sours, I think.

Only beer I bought that I couldn't finish.

That I recall, anyway. Laughing

Belgians, Trappists, Lambics, Farmhouse, Saisons - all good though.
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Stick

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PostSubject: Re: Lambics/Geuze   Wed Mar 25, 2015 4:20 pm

Hey Rande,

Not too sure what a Lambic / Geuze is but it certainly sounds like you're enjoying it. Can you fill in some gaps?
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DireWolf

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PostSubject: Re: Lambics/Geuze   Wed Mar 25, 2015 4:35 pm

He is talking about maybe the greatest invention known to man.

Beer.
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Stick

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PostSubject: Re: Lambics/Geuze   Wed Mar 25, 2015 4:49 pm

Yup, getting that DW, but I'm sensing there's some speciality stuff going on here...?
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scotties22

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PostSubject: Re: Lambics/Geuze   Wed Mar 25, 2015 7:21 pm

Any of Lindamens fruit lambics. For years they were the only beers I ever drank. I am pretty alcohol sensitive and have a very very picky palate.

I have never tried their straight lambic though. Next time my husband goes to the liquor store I'll have him pick up a bottle.
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Brewdude

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PostSubject: Re: Lambics/Geuze   Wed Mar 25, 2015 8:18 pm

Stick wrote:
Hey Rande,

Not too sure what a Lambic / Geuze is but it certainly sounds like you're enjoying it.  Can you fill in some gaps?

David, basically spontaneously fermented beer with the natural organisms present in the air and the wooden casks they are fermented and matured in. The end result is quite sour, and the degree of sourness can vary from brewery to brewery.

And some of the other organisms can also impart other funky characteristics that would be a flaw in any other style - such as musty and "horsey" (horse blanket) characters. Yet the predominant definer is an acidic sourness that can be very pleasant, that is once you acquire the taste!

Defiantly not for everyone, but like any complex food or beverage one worth seeking out. I do believe you have an affinity for the more esoteric peated Islay Malts, yes? And that again is an acquired taste for most.

So, in the same way the sour beers of Belgium follow suit. You might love or hate them at first, yet there's a je ne sais quoi that draws one back again and again.

I hasten to add that the sourness has to be balanced against the other flavours and this comes through careful blending of various casks with varying degrees of sourness and other flavours. Each cask will produce wildly different beers, given the same brew due to the rather uncontrollable nature of the resident organisms.

The brewer/blender will then decide which casks are to be combined into one batch which will represent the particular brand/label. And even then, before bottling it will be seeded with freshly fermenting beer to produce the bottle re-fermentation and hence the carbonation. And even here, there can be variations in final product.

In this way, one can draw some comparisons from a certain vintage year in a fine wine and a Geuze/Lambic. And a Geuze (pronounced much like "goose") is a blended Lambic. Lambic is the traditional straight product which would be served "still" or relatively un-carbonated. Yet today, these terms are often blurred. Call it marketing!

One interesting thing (to me at least as a brewer), is that the hops for this style are aged for 3-5 or more years "warm". Meaning they aren't intended to retain their normal aroma or flavour characteristics if stored properly. Lambic/Geuze is not a hoppy style, and in this instance, their anti-bacterial properties are retained.

That may seem like a contradiction in terms, given that the style is intentionally sour. Yet the properties of the hops will certainly restrict the most unwanted natural flora which would wreck havoc on the finished beer.

It's a very rustic style of beer (or ale if you prefer), which is largely practised by a very few artisinal brewers in Belgium. In fact pretty much in the Zenne valley outside Brussels, which is considered to to the be the ideal environment for the right mix of natural flora.

OK, so I've gone all beer geek on you here. Guess that's what I am and how I define my life as as brewer of 30+ years!

Further reading-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambic


What a Face


Cheers,

RR


Last edited by Brewdude on Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
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scotties22

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PostSubject: Re: Lambics/Geuze   Wed Mar 25, 2015 8:22 pm

I bought some hops over two years ago so that I can make a lambic style cherry ale....in another year or two Cool
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DrumsAndBeer

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PostSubject: Re: Lambics/Geuze   Wed Mar 25, 2015 8:51 pm

scotties22 wrote:
I bought some hops over two years ago so that I can make a lambic style cherry ale....in another year or two Cool

Be sure to buy some more when you do.. Ha, ha.. Wink
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Brewdude

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PostSubject: Re: Lambics/Geuze   Wed Mar 25, 2015 9:12 pm

scotties22 wrote:
Any of Lindamens fruit lambics.  For years they were the only beers I ever drank.  I am pretty alcohol sensitive and have a very very picky palate.  

I have never tried their straight lambic though.  Next time my husband goes to the liquor store I'll have him pick up a bottle.

Lindemans sweetens their line prior to bottling. And they tunnel pasteurize for stability, yet which falttens the flavours. Been to the brewery and witnessed it in action. Their line is a very much more mainstream appeal, with only hints at the acidicy.

They're very successful at what they do, and serve to introduce those new to the style. And not to sound disparaging, but I also feel they don't do justice to the category.

Had the tour there in '94, and it was like magic- Renee Lindeman showed my group around and they did everything perfectly - from the open coolship primary fermenters  with missing roof tiles (many pics), on through the casks with freshly fermenting beer (complete with the requisite cobwebs).

We sampled various casks straight from the tap at several days/several weeks, and found it to be incredible with all the possibilities.

Alas, they way they choose to finish the products leaves much to be desired from a purist standpoint. Pity, that!

Still, just as in food/'baccy/wine/or anything else subjective - enjoy what you like!

Wink


Cheers,

RR
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scotties22

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PostSubject: Re: Lambics/Geuze   Wed Mar 25, 2015 9:25 pm

So when I send Heath to the store is there a brand I should tell him to pick up? I will yield to your expertise in the field o' beer....always Wink
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Brewdude

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PostSubject: Re: Lambics/Geuze   Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:28 pm

scotties22 wrote:
So when I send Heath to the store is there a brand I should tell him to pick up?  I will yield to your expertise in the field o' beer....always Wink  

Scotties, it's whatever you enjoy.

Really.


Cool


Cheers,

RR

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scotties22

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PostSubject: Re: Lambics/Geuze   Thu Mar 26, 2015 9:16 am

Brewdude wrote:
scotties22 wrote:
So when I send Heath to the store is there a brand I should tell him to pick up?  I will yield to your expertise in the field o' beer....always Wink  

Scotties, it's whatever you enjoy.

Really.


Cool


Cheers,

RR


That's the thing....I really don't know. I have gone from not liking beer at all, save an occasional Lindemans, to drinking Porters of all things. So, now I am trying a bit of everything. Most all beer I find overly bitter. I'm not convinced this is a bittering hops thing as I pick it up in beers like Pabst and even Budweiser. I don't drink wine either...for the same reason. I haven't figured out what I am picking up on but most of the time it is something I can't get past. I don't taste anything other than bitter. Funnily enough, things that I drink and don't find bitter Heath says are so bitter he can't drink them.....such as Santa Fe Brewing Co's Java Stout. I love it and he can't drink it at all.
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Richard Burley

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PostSubject: Re: Lambics/Geuze   Thu Mar 26, 2015 9:59 am

This stuff sounds horrible. Seriously. I've got to try it sometime. tongue
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Brewdude

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PostSubject: Re: Lambics/Geuze   Thu Mar 26, 2015 4:59 pm

scotties22 wrote:
Brewdude wrote:
scotties22 wrote:
So when I send Heath to the store is there a brand I should tell him to pick up?  I will yield to your expertise in the field o' beer....always Wink  

Scotties, it's whatever you enjoy.

Really.


Cool


Cheers,

RR


That's the thing....I really don't know.  I have gone from not liking beer at all, save an occasional Lindemans, to drinking Porters of all things.  So, now I am trying a bit of everything.  Most all beer I find overly bitter.  I'm not convinced this is a bittering hops thing as I pick it up in beers like Pabst and even Budweiser.  I don't drink wine either...for the same reason.  I haven't figured out what I am picking up on but most of the time it is something I can't get past.  I don't taste anything other than bitter.  Funnily enough, things that I drink and don't find bitter Heath says are so bitter he can't drink them.....such as Santa Fe Brewing Co's Java Stout.  I love it and he can't drink it at all.

In that case, I'd be inclined to visit a speciality bottle shop, the kind that specializes in craft and import bottles. They would likely have a nice selection of different Geuze offerings from Belgium. Ask the proprietor for some recommendations, as what's available in my area is likely to be different than yours.

If you don't have one of these nearby, perhaps your local grocery stores have a modest selection of imports and you could start there. Or a Liquor store that also carries beer and wine.

If you're able to obtain the Lindeman line, the one that is perhaps the purest of them is the Cuvee Rene oude geuze Lambic. It's still not as sour as some, but does have a nice soft character and could tell you if this sort of thing is worth exploring further-

http://www.merchantduvin.com/brew-lindemans-cuvee-rene-lambic.php




HTH



Cheers,

RR
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Stick

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PostSubject: Re: Lambics/Geuze   Thu Mar 26, 2015 6:13 pm

Brewdude wrote:
Stick wrote:
Hey Rande,

Not too sure what a Lambic / Geuze is but it certainly sounds like you're enjoying it.  Can you fill in some gaps?


I do believe you have an affinity for the more esoteric peated Islay Malts, yes? And that again is an acquired taste for most.


Spot on Rande, yes. Thanks for the detail too. My taste isn't hugely developed but for some reason I've always been pretty good with the nuances of single malts so it'd be interesting if this extends to these beers. We have a large Hyper Market nearby so will scour the shelves on my next visit. I'll let you know how I get on!
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monbla256

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PostSubject: Re: Lambics/Geuze   Thu Mar 26, 2015 7:55 pm

Wish i could drink beer as always enjoyed the taste but it and Diabetes just do not mix!! Waaay too many carbs !! Twisted Evil Twisted Evil
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Brewdude

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PostSubject: Re: Lambics/Geuze   Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:04 pm

Stick wrote:
Brewdude wrote:
Stick wrote:
Hey Rande,

Not too sure what a Lambic / Geuze is but it certainly sounds like you're enjoying it.  Can you fill in some gaps?


I do believe you have an affinity for the more esoteric peated Islay Malts, yes? And that again is an acquired taste for most.


Spot on Rande, yes.  Thanks for the detail too.  My taste isn't hugely developed but for some reason I've always been pretty good with the nuances of single malts so it'd be interesting if this extends to these beers.  We have a large Hyper Market nearby so will scour the shelves on my next visit.  I'll let you know how I get on!

Do let us know how you get on with that lark mate. My casual view of the availability of esoteric imported beers in the UK has been that it's opening up, but still has a rather limited range. Compared to us septics, mind!

That may have turned around, and I'll sound out my UK mate Ian about speciality suppliers.


Cheers,

RR

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Brewdude

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PostSubject: Re: Lambics/Geuze   Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:07 pm

monbla256 wrote:
Wish i could drink beer as  always enjoyed the taste but it and Diabetes just do not mix!! Waaay too many carbs !! Twisted Evil Twisted Evil

A great pity that, Michael. But we all play the hand we are dealt with.


Cheers,

RR
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huffelpuff

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PostSubject: Re: Lambics/Geuze   Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:26 pm

Scottie, I too have issues with things being bitter that really aren't. I think what you may be finding bitter in your beer is probably black patent malt. For me the addition of black patent is the kiss of death for a beer. I just can't get past the bitter burnt flavor. Kinda like Starbucks coffee for me is over roasted and it comes off as all kinds of bitter. That being said there are plenty of great dark beers out there that don't use BPM. Enjoy the search.

Jim
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idbowman

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PostSubject: Re: Lambics/Geuze   Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:02 pm

It might be a pretty pedestrian and cliche answer, but I've never failed to enjoy Lindemans Framboise - it isn't earth-shatteringly good, but it's widely available and tasty enough.

A little tougher to find (around my parts, anyway), but 3 Fonteinen Oude Geuze is my personal favorite when I can get a hold of it.
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PostSubject: Re: Lambics/Geuze   Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:13 pm

leacha wrote:
Next to my first loves of stouts and porters, Belgium has some of the best beers ever...

...the Trappist style is my favorite from that country though...

+1 to this. Belgians are great. Ommegang out of NY is normally a little cheaper though, and equally delicious. Also, Orval Trappist is one of my absolute favorites!

Interestingly enough, Cincinnati is a good spot for microbrewing. We've been going through a microbrew renaissance for the past 5 years and have 6-10 micro's within city limits. There's a place locally where you can get a growler of this stuff called Axis Mundi. They call it an "American Super Stout", but I always thought it reminded me of an Imperial Russian Porter. Whatever it is, the ABV is like 10.2%. That growler might be one you want to share...
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