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 How to tell Larsen pipes made by Former, ect?

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stapf

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Location : Cedar Hill TX (DFW)
Registration date : 2014-10-23

PostSubject: How to tell Larsen pipes made by Former, ect?   Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:18 pm

I see people posting Larsen pipes for sale that they claim definatively were made by Former or Teddy Knutsen or one of the other carvers who went on to individual success. How do they know? I don't see on pipedia or pipehil a way to date them and then if you could, how would you tell which carver working in the factory at that time made it?

Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but google searches aren't turning up an answer.
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stapf

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Location : Cedar Hill TX (DFW)
Registration date : 2014-10-23

PostSubject: Re: How to tell Larsen pipes made by Former, ect?   Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:27 pm

I should note that I am refering to what I assume to be trustworthy website sellers.


Last edited by stapf on Tue Mar 31, 2015 2:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ftrplt

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Age : 70
Location : Split between Raleigh, NC and OKC, OK
Registration date : 2007-12-15

PostSubject: Re: How to tell Larsen pipes made by Former, ect?   Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:45 pm

Don't have an answer for your question. That said, in the past I just sent a question to the seller asking for a bit of substantiation to statements made in their offering. Some times I received a reply, sometimes I didn't!!!!! cheers FTRPLT
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juanmedusa

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Age : 36
Location : Falls Church, Virginia
Registration date : 2013-07-06

PostSubject: Re: How to tell Larsen pipes made by Former, ect?   Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:21 pm

Interesting, I have no answer, but good question.
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daveinlax

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Location : Wisconsin
Registration date : 2007-12-28

PostSubject: Re: How to tell Larsen pipes made by Former, ect?   Tue Mar 31, 2015 2:07 pm

A student of the Larsen and Danish pipes can often tell at a glance who carved that pipe. It's not always and it's no guarantee but after a guy has looked at 100's or 1000's of pipes over the years they know the styles pretty good. It helps when you have access to these carvers at shows. They're usually very helpful and I know Teddy and Tonni have authenticate their pipes if they know it's their work.  Shocked


Last edited by daveinlax on Wed Apr 01, 2015 8:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
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BriarBlues

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Location : Canada
Registration date : 2007-12-14

PostSubject: How to tell Larsen pipes   Wed Apr 01, 2015 11:03 am

Good Day All;

As Dave has posted, the more pipes by various carvers you see in hand the better you can tell each carvers "style" and craftsmanship. Each carver does certain things slightly differently. For me in most cases it is the stem, as opposed to bowl shape. The buttons that Teddy, Tonni, Jess etc do each are different. Once you see a number of them you will notice the similarities of each carvers handiwork and the differences.

The above being said, there are also many that offer work that was shared. In a "workshop / factory" style shop like WO Larsen in the old days, there were pipes created by more than one carver.

There are also some that only the carvers themselves can say who carved which. It's all part of the fun of pipe collecting.

Regards
Michael J. Glukler
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lb



Registration date : 2011-10-30

PostSubject: Re: How to tell Larsen pipes made by Former, ect?   Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:42 pm

So there is no way to tell unless you are former,etc . In my opinion , this is just to try to get more $$$ for the pipe. Just like when someone advertise a nording made peter stokkeby claimed to be made by J. Larsen , or a Mr. Andersen. However , once i saw two fairmorn pipes made in denmark claimed to be made by Former , and the shape , the grain , etc. had all the signs that were made by him , just that there is no way to be sure. Can someone provide more information on this fairmorns made in denmark? thank you
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BriarBlues

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Location : Canada
Registration date : 2007-12-14

PostSubject: How to tell Larsen pipes made by Former, ect?   Wed Apr 01, 2015 10:26 pm

That is not what I said. There are many well establshed collectors that can easily tell which carver created a specific pipe, that does not carry the carvers personal stamp. Other carvers can also tell each others work.
If you are not certain about a pipe you own, but think it was carved by so and so, send them a photo. Many are happy to reply.
Well established sellers study pipes. Not only those they collect, but the thousands that run through their hands. From the volume, study, and speaking with the carvers directly they learn how to tell X from Z.

As far as Mr Anderson pipes...... some say Jorgen Larsen carved them. I sort of recall David Field, a very well respected importer / collector, that used to carry Jorgen Larsen pipes stating that Jorgen did not carve the Mr Anderson's. I have also heard that Karl Erik, Soren Reifbjerg Rasmussen, and a few other Danish carvers have been mentioned as possible carvers of the MR Anderson's, although none have stepped forward to verify or deny which did create the pipes.

Jorgen Larsen DID carve some of the pipes for Peter Stokkebye. But here you need to know the carvers style as there was also another carver that made some pipes for Stokkebye, but these were far less quality pipes, and many were fitted with Lucite stems and did NOT carry the inlaid gold Stokkebye shield in the Ebonite hand cut stems.

The key is to do your research and gain knowledge. How? Go to shows. Talk to collectors. Talk to carvers. Listen and learn.

Regards
Michael J. Glukler

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Cartaphilus

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Age : 63
Location : East Texas
Registration date : 2011-12-15

PostSubject: Re: How to tell Larsen pipes made by Former, ect?   Wed Apr 01, 2015 10:29 pm

I haven't been able to find the Larsen pipe which states it was definitely made by Former on eBay.
A few that said Jorgensen which have Identifying mark and one that states maybe Former but, unknown.
Anyone got the link to the Larsen that suppose to be carved by Former?

And I agree with Michael, he knows what he's talking about. Wink
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stapf

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Location : Cedar Hill TX (DFW)
Registration date : 2014-10-23

PostSubject: Re: How to tell Larsen pipes made by Former, ect?   Thu Apr 02, 2015 7:54 am

Walker Briarworks has one that seens to say it was made by Teddy.  The Former listed is only that it is while he was manager, but I really like that pipe despite the replacement stem.

Finepipes.com has a bunch.  Some seem to say definatively that they were made by Former, ect.  Others have ? On them.  Understanding more I notice that the definates have a high grade on them so if they show the style and are high grade it probably can be said with more certanty.  Or maybe they took the time with the high grades to contact the carver and get confirmation.

One reason I asked was I was hoping there was a logo that would tell the date or carver.  The shop I fequent gets older Larsens in from time to time.  Also that Dublin on the Walker site is definately my style.  It just got me wondering. Not doing it soon though so feel free to buy it before I do everyone.
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lb



Registration date : 2011-10-30

PostSubject: Re: How to tell Larsen pipes made by Former, ect?   Thu Apr 02, 2015 10:10 am

Hello Mike , i did not imply that you said that. In fact , i agree with you but at the end only the carvers or maybe other carvers can verify authorship. Yes , Jorgen indeed carved the Stokkeby pipes , at least that is what Mr. Stokkeby claims on his book. But that is the point. I have seen sellers on ebay with stokkeby dinner pipes claiming that they where made by Jorgen and asking big$$. Of course , just by the look of the pipe it is obvious that they where not made by him.
I remember several years ago ,in the ephemeris, someone bought a "Teddy" pipe made by Larsen. In a show , this person showed the pipe to Teddy and Teddy said it was not carved by him , but by Tonni Nielsen. So , the obvious reason to sell it as a Teddy was to get more $$. I am not going to disclose the name of the seller or the buyer but the story is in one of the last two ephemeris.
Regarding the other point , i made a quick research and it seems that Fairmorn pipes never were made by Former but by Helmer Thomsen. The confusion seems to be that Former once made a conmemorative pipe for fairmorn. Anyway , the conclusion here is that Helmer also is a great carver , just loke Tonni is.
Now my opinion , if i like a W. Larsen pipe , i just buy it and pay for a Larsen pipe , not the price of a Teddy or a Former. Now , a Larsen may cost between $20 to $1000 . It is the buyer judgement what is going to determine how much he would pay for the pipe.
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Cartaphilus

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Age : 63
Location : East Texas
Registration date : 2011-12-15

PostSubject: Re: How to tell Larsen pipes made by Former, ect?   Thu Apr 02, 2015 10:51 am

In my opinion mistakes can be made by anyone when judging who a maker may have been without a stamp or  the makers input. I think it's up to the buyer to make the judgement call as to who carved a pipe and not to rely on hearsay. I can see that one might think that a seller is trying to value a pipe higher to get more for it but, I'll also give them the benefit of the doubt unless it's not warranted by wrong doings in the past by the seller. I certainly wouldn't try a sell a pipe marked only as a Larsen if I knew who carved it. That's just good salesmanship to be knowledgeable of what your selling but, all sellers don't know everything about what there selling and that's no ones fault except there own. I think as you said, it all boils down to the buyer, no ones forcing the sale. And ALL buyers should be knowledgeable about what there buying before attempting to purchase anything. You wouldn't put chocolate in your gas tank just because some yahoo told you, would you? Same goes for anything else I believe. That's all, just wanted to put my 2 cents in. Wink
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stapf

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Location : Cedar Hill TX (DFW)
Registration date : 2014-10-23

PostSubject: Re: How to tell Larsen pipes made by Former, ect?   Thu Apr 02, 2015 11:24 am

Just to be clear about my posts here. I was in no way intending to imply that any of the sites I had visited or mentioned were in any way being dishonest.

I had assumed there were logo differences or carver codes on the pipes and that there was a list of these published somewhere that was not available on the internet.

It really doesn't matter who carved the pipe as long as it is quality and you like it for the price.
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stapf

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Location : Cedar Hill TX (DFW)
Registration date : 2014-10-23

PostSubject: Re: How to tell Larsen pipes made by Former, ect?   Thu Apr 02, 2015 11:46 am

Thank you to everyone who was able to answer my question. I've learned a lot. I really need to make it to a pipe show one day. Trying for NOLA as that is closest and far enough off to save some money. Oh, and perique tour.
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BriarBlues

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Location : Canada
Registration date : 2007-12-14

PostSubject: How to tell Larsen pipes made by Former, ect?   Thu Apr 02, 2015 12:22 pm

Good Day All;

How shall I say this .......... hhmmm ... a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing. There are a few sellers and collectors that can tell the difference. Sometimes they can also be "tricked". No one is perfect. Sometimes it is very easy to tell who carved a pipe and sometimes it is not. Personally, if I don't know I will not speculate. If the pipe shows signs that I can narrow down the possibilities, I will suggest those possibilities and let the buyer decide if they agree or disagree. Trust me, we've all been fooled at least once.

With the volume of pipes carved by the Great Danes, even they can forget pipes. I know of at least one time when two different carvers "verified" they each made the same pipe. So sometimes even the carvers can make a mistake.

There are lots of "myths" in the pipe world. NOT every Stanwell was designed by Sixten Ivarsson. Poul Winslow, Anne Julie, Tom Eltang, Jess Chonowitsch, and others also designed shapes for Stanwell. Funny how many listings we see stating that Sixten designed the shape.

Fritz Becker carved pipe. Sorry no such animal. In conversation with Paolo ( rip ) many years ago I asked about these Fritz carved pipes. Paolo told me that when Fritz was carving pipes, there was never one that was made from start to finish by Fritz alone. At that time each pipe was carved / created by 4 hands. Both Fritz and Paolo had a hand on each and every pipe. So Fritz Era is correct. But not Fritz carved, as that suggests only Fritz made the pipe.

To really get a foot hold on who carved what, you need to study design, shapes, internal engineering, stem button shapes, AND who worked for / with who. In Denmark many of the carvers worked for various "houses". Poul Ilsted spent time at S.Bang and Nording, as well Svendborg. PH Vigen at WO Larsen and Bjarne. Until you spend the time to study each carver's work over their full career, it's difficult to call any pipe carved by X, Y or Z.

I've been dealing in pipes for nearly 20 years and each and every day I learn something new, OR find out something new which changes what I had thought the hour before. It's a never ending journey of study and learning.

For a collector you have the advantage of following a specific brand / carver and thus limit what you wish to learn. As a dealer you must absorb everything on all fronts.

If a seller states a pipe was carved by "carver X", ask how they have drawn that conclusion. If they can offer specific reasons why they have come to the conclusion, take it for what it's worth. If they have no answer ........ I'd walk away.

On a final note .... collect what you like. Not by whose name is stamped or not stamped on the shank. I collect Castello's. No specific style, vintage, finish, or shape. I try and find Castello's I really like and then enjoy them. I do not care is Guiseppe, Marco, or Luigi carved them. Smile

Regards
Michael J. Glukler





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