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Bugsahearn

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Registration date : 2015-02-05

PostSubject: Standard   Wed Aug 05, 2015 5:40 pm

Whenever I see pipe smoking in and old movie or picture its always a simple pipe almost always a billiard I think, dark stained, no ring, just a straight simple no frills pipe, usually a good size bowl and and the stem probably around 5 inches. Why is so hard to find pipes like this? I have ONE Dr. Grabow Grand duke that fits the bill but for the most part it seems pipe like this are impossible to fine. All can I ever find are fancy pipes, millions of different shapes and sizes but no standard simple pipes. Anyone know where to look? I collect unsmoked grabow's so I know most of the models they put out but what are some other comparable brands that made a simple dark stained straight billiard that could probably find with some looking around?
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Bugsahearn

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PostSubject: Re: Standard   Wed Aug 05, 2015 6:13 pm

BTW a good example of a standard dark billiard I would say is the Dr. Grabow Riviera they make now. Of course they sell this pipe everywhere, but I don't find the new grabow's to smoke as well as the old ones...which are fantastic in my opinion.
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monbla256

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PostSubject: Re: Standard   Wed Aug 05, 2015 6:53 pm

Here's just one example of Savinelli's offerings that seems to fit your criteria. They offer this model # 105 in several series. I've seen them in both smooth dark finishes as well as lighter natural finishes as well as dark sandbasted finishes.

http://www.smokingpipes.com/pipes/new/savinelli/moreinfo.cfm?product_id=176376
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Bugsahearn

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PostSubject: Re: Standard   Wed Aug 05, 2015 7:47 pm

Yea that one is pretty similar to what i mean. I don't go for that racket tho no fancy pipes for me
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monbla256

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PostSubject: Re: Standard   Wed Aug 05, 2015 8:34 pm

Bugsahearn wrote:
Yea that one is pretty similar to what i mean. I don't go for that racket tho no fancy pipes for me

Not ALL Savinelli's are "fancy". They have a wide range of pricing, but nothing in the Grabow area if THAT'S your primary criteria!
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Dutch

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PostSubject: Re: Standard   Wed Aug 05, 2015 9:27 pm

Bugs, a large portion of the GBD's you find on the estate market, fit into the traditional billiard category, for less than $100.

If you want to step up to the next level, you can look for an estate Barling's in good condition, that usually go for a little more than a GBD. The difference with the Barling's, is that the stem work is noticeably better quality.
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Richard Burley

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PostSubject: Re: Standard   Thu Aug 06, 2015 2:41 am

Dunhill, group 3 or 4, seem to me to be the best for this, though some claim Comoy made the most perfect classic shapes. You might try some of the French St. Claude makers also. I, too, like no frills billiards, the kind you see in old movies.
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Bugsahearn

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PostSubject: Re: Standard   Thu Aug 06, 2015 8:39 am

Thanks guys I will keep an eye out for those brands especially comoy's, gbd and barling which arent always so expensive on ebay. What is it that makes dunhill and savinelli better than old grabows? I've read they used the same briar and just assumed it's all in the name no real difference in quality.
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Richard Burley

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PostSubject: Re: Standard   Thu Aug 06, 2015 10:31 am

Fit, finish, and fills are the obvious. Stem material and workmanship on an upscale pipe is noticeably better. Then there's processing the briar, which means drying and aging, the purpose being to rid the briar of saps, resins, etc. The wood tastes different, most noticeably when breaking it in.

I don't think I have ever had a Dr. Grabow, so I can't vouch for their quality or lack of it. But I have had Medicos, Yello-Boles, and various house brand pipes from the '70s and many were horrible, even bitter. But I have had cheap pipes that were great smokers. I look at it as kind of a crap shoot where you can increase your odds of winning by paying more.

Personally, I think corn cobs blow them all away, including meerschaums. Your preference for older Grabows is interesting; see the difference, even within the same brand?
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Bugsahearn

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PostSubject: Re: Standard   Thu Aug 06, 2015 11:12 am

Oh definitely Rich, I always figured a pipe is a pipe is a pipe, but it is a crapshoot like you said. I have one or two grabows that R older, not sure how old but I would guess 50's, early 60's...I can tell because they feel like a completely different material than the 20 or so other ones I own. The briar is heavier and just looks and feels of higher quality. The rim is much thinner than almost all the other grabows I've seen, but these are high quality pipes in my view. I have a wide variety of different grabows and they all smoke a little bit different. Some pull hard others have an open draw. I prefer an open heavy draw and so I tend to smoke these the most often. I would guess the difference has to do with the hole alignment? The newer grabows I dont care much for....the rim is SUPER wide and the stems make me nauseous...but some of the older grabows I have smoke perfect I cant imagine a dunhill smoking much better. Maybe it's a case of the blind man not knowing what seeing is but I've always thought a dunhill is the same as a grabow with an expensive name tag stuck on...its a racket. And from what I've read from smokers complaining about their new pipes being fucked up the new dunhills sound no better than the new grabows.
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monbla256

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PostSubject: Re: Standard   Thu Aug 06, 2015 12:44 pm

If it is ALL as you say, "... a racket" then Savinelli has done it well for over 100 years now and STILL produces a LOT of pipes, more the Dr. G yearly, enjoyed by millions of smokers world wide. Just an observation Twisted Evil Twisted Evil
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eklektos44

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PostSubject: Re: Standard   Thu Aug 06, 2015 12:51 pm

Savinelli makes a wide range of pipes in different grades and qualities. There are pipes in most price ranges. Depends on whether you are after a machine made pipe or a hand made. If you're after a hand made pipe you can expect to pay more. But even there you can find deals. For a low cost good smoker I've had excellent luck with Comoy's. But you can almost always get a better grade of pipe by buying an estate pipe.
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Richard Burley

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PostSubject: Re: Standard   Thu Aug 06, 2015 1:13 pm

I don't care what pipe people smoke; it's just that I hate seeing someone get turned off pipe smoking because of poor choices in wood or weed. And the only reason I care about that is that I don't particularly like being viewed as an ambulatory anomaly because I have a pipe sticking out of my mouth, or being pulled over by a cop because he thinks I'm freebasing as I fire up. The more the merrier, in other words. Whatever works for you--as long as it's working.
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Bugsahearn

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PostSubject: Re: Standard   Thu Aug 06, 2015 2:28 pm

monbla256 wrote:
If it is ALL as you say, "... a racket" then Savinelli has done it well for over 100 years now and STILL produces a LOT of pipes, more the Dr. G yearly, enjoyed by millions of smokers world wide. Just an observation Twisted Evil Twisted Evil

Rackets tend to stick around since there's money in them...consumer culture is full of m. I'm sure savinelli pipes are great...but does a new savinelli smoke better than old grabow? Savinelli might make more pipes nowadays but there was a time when grabow made more...a time when pipe smokers didnt believe you had to pay extortion rates for a good pipe. How much did the average dunhill sell for in 1950...and how much does it sell for now? Is the price increase inline with inflation value? I'd bet not...and I'd also bet the pipes produced in 1950 were a hell of a lot better than the ones produced now. My view is that companies are all about max profit margins...meaning they are going to make the pipe for as a cheap as they possibly can and sell it for as much as they can. Now this doesnt mean that dunhill or savinelli is going to use the cheapest components, materials available...but it means they are going to use the cheapest they can get away with without the consumer noticing.

PS another thing thats important to remember is that expensive doesnt mean better. Most of us are brainwashed and simply can't wrap out minds around this. Flashy cars are a good example of this, slap some shiny plastic and fancy brand name and bam millions of suckers will pay hundreds of thousands for it. Racket! capitalism is full of it. Dunhill's sold for 17.50 in 1947. I'd bet by ass those smoke the new ones out of the water. and how much was 17.50 in todays value? 213.32 so that actually is pretty expensive!

Kaywoodies cost 426 dollars in todays value. Its hard to imagine smokers spending that much in 1947 but maybe i'm wrong and things havent changed
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monbla256

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PostSubject: Re: Standard   Thu Aug 06, 2015 8:41 pm

Bugsahearn wrote:
monbla256 wrote:
If it is ALL as you say, "... a racket" then Savinelli has done it well for over 100 years now and STILL produces a LOT of pipes, more the Dr. G yearly, enjoyed by millions of smokers world wide. Just an observation Twisted Evil Twisted Evil

Rackets tend to stick around since there's money in them...consumer culture is full of m. I'm sure savinelli pipes are great...but does a new savinelli smoke better than old grabow? Savinelli might make more pipes nowadays but there was a time when grabow made more...a time when pipe smokers didnt believe you had to pay extortion rates for a good pipe. How much did the average dunhill sell for in 1950...and how much does it sell for now? Is the price increase inline with inflation value? I'd bet not...and I'd also bet the pipes produced in 1950 were a hell of a lot better than the ones produced now. My view is that companies are all about max profit margins...meaning they are going to make the pipe for as a cheap as they possibly can and sell it for as much as they can. Now this doesnt mean that dunhill or savinelli is going to use the cheapest components, materials available...but it means they are going to use the cheapest they can get away with without the consumer noticing.

PS another thing thats important to remember is that expensive doesnt mean better. Most of us are brainwashed and simply can't wrap out minds around this. Flashy cars are a good example of this, slap some shiny plastic and fancy brand name and bam millions of suckers will pay hundreds of thousands for it. Racket! capitalism is full of it. Dunhill's sold for 17.50 in 1947. I'd bet by ass those smoke the new ones out of the water. and how much was 17.50 in todays value? 213.32 so that actually is pretty expensive!

Kaywoodies cost 426 dollars in todays value. Its hard to imagine smokers spending that much in 1947 but maybe i'm wrong and things havent changed

With that viewpoint ALL of EVERYTHING'S a "racket" as you say so why do you even smoke a pipe ? Twisted Evil
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Dutch

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PostSubject: Re: Standard   Thu Aug 06, 2015 11:22 pm

Bugsahearn wrote:
monbla256 wrote:
If it is ALL as you say, "... a racket" then Savinelli has done it well for over 100 years now and STILL produces a LOT of pipes, more the Dr. G yearly, enjoyed by millions of smokers world wide. Just an observation Twisted Evil Twisted Evil

Rackets tend to stick around since there's money in them...consumer culture is full of m. I'm sure savinelli pipes are great...but does a new savinelli smoke better than old grabow? Savinelli might make more pipes nowadays but there was a time when grabow made more...a time when pipe smokers didnt believe you had to pay extortion rates for a good pipe. How much did the average dunhill sell for in 1950...and how much does it sell for now? Is the price increase inline with inflation value? I'd bet not...and I'd also bet the pipes produced in 1950 were a hell of a lot better than the ones produced now. My view is that companies are all about max profit margins...meaning they are going to make the pipe for as a cheap as they possibly can and sell it for as much as they can. Now this doesnt mean that dunhill or savinelli is going to use the cheapest components, materials available...but it means they are going to use the cheapest they can get away with without the consumer noticing.

PS another thing thats important to remember is that expensive doesnt mean better. Most of us are brainwashed and simply can't wrap out minds around this. Flashy cars are a good example of this, slap some shiny plastic and fancy brand name and bam millions of suckers will pay hundreds of thousands for it. Racket! capitalism is full of it. Dunhill's sold for 17.50 in 1947. I'd bet by ass those smoke the new ones out of the water. and how much was 17.50 in todays value? 213.32 so that actually is pretty expensive!

Kaywoodies cost 426 dollars in todays value. Its hard to imagine smokers spending that much in 1947 but maybe i'm wrong and things havent changed

Bugs, I am posting 2 videos here comparing 2 different cars. Without having test driven either of these cars, can you watch the videos, and tell any noticeable differences in quality?

Is one noticeably better than the other, and can those differences justify the difference in the cost? I suppose as they say, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.  Wink



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puros_bran
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PostSubject: Re: Standard   Fri Aug 07, 2015 12:38 am

The whole bottom shelf snob routine has been played out on this forum to the point that it's boring and old.

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Richard Burley

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PostSubject: Re: Standard   Fri Aug 07, 2015 1:13 am

Hey, nothin' wrong with smokin' green wood and putty. Laughing
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eklektos44

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PostSubject: Re: Standard   Fri Aug 07, 2015 6:18 am

puros_bran wrote:
The whole bottom shelf snob routine has been played out on this forum to the point that it's boring and old.

There is a balance between form, function, and cost.
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eklektos44

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PostSubject: Re: Standard   Fri Aug 07, 2015 6:27 am

Richard Burley wrote:
Hey, nothin' wrong with smokin' green wood and putty. Laughing

I find the whole Savinelli are "fancy" pipes a bit curious...
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Bugsahearn

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PostSubject: Re: Standard   Fri Aug 07, 2015 6:39 am

I'm not trying to be a snob. I'm not adverse to admitting when I'm wrong. Dunhill's were like half the price they are now. Kaywoodies 20 times the price. What does that mean?
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Bugsahearn

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PostSubject: Re: Standard   Fri Aug 07, 2015 6:45 am

eklektos44 wrote:
Richard Burley wrote:
Hey, nothin' wrong with smokin' green wood and putty. Laughing

I find the whole Savinelli are "fancy" pipes a bit curious...

Well the Savinelli: Punto Oro Petite Bordeaux (105) that monbla posted goes for 240. That's expensive for me but thats what a dunhill cost in 1947 so maybe I should be changing my view. That pipe is exactly what I was looking for PS monbla
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Bugsahearn

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PostSubject: Re: Standard   Fri Aug 07, 2015 6:55 am

Anyone have a "savinelli" capitol bruyere? Does the stinger come out?
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eklektos44

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PostSubject: Re: Standard   Fri Aug 07, 2015 6:57 am

Bugsahearn wrote:
eklektos44 wrote:
Richard Burley wrote:
Hey, nothin' wrong with smokin' green wood and putty. Laughing

I find the whole Savinelli are "fancy" pipes a bit curious...

Well the Savinelli: Punto Oro Petite Bordeaux (105) that monbla posted goes for 240. That's expensive for me but thats what a dunhill cost in 1947 so maybe I should be changing my view. That pipe is exactly what I was looking for PS monbla

$240 retail new nowadays isn't on the high end cost wise. Plus with patience you can always get them for less. And who doesn't like a bargain? Pipes that were expensive back in the 80's to me I'm picking up now for a song. Patience seems to be the key.
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puros_bran
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PostSubject: Re: Standard   Fri Aug 07, 2015 7:08 am

It means Kaywoodie started cutting corners and didn't stop until they have the pipe they now produce. You can't get something for nothing.

And go find anything that actually translates out in to those 'inflation dollars'. Or better yet price your house out in those inflation dollars and let me buy it for that price. Lol.

The 'racket' of inflation dollar pricing is deeper than I care to get into here.. But The basic gag is CPI. but you have to figure in labor value, energy cost, the shift in historic and contemporary standard of living into that. IIRC there's 7 differing ways to measure 'inflation dollars' and they all garner extremely different results.


I'm not trying to be an ass.. If you want a cheap pipe that smokes well just go get a Missouri Meershaum corn cob. If you want an extremely economical pipe that you will enjoy the rest of your life go snag that historic English pipe or plop down >$100 and get a new Peterson or Savinelli etc. they will outlast you, your kids, and probably your grandkids if cared for... Look at all those 60-70-80 year old pipes on eBay for proof.

Also, Savinelli isn't a high end brand. They have some higher priced lines but by and large they are a lower end priced pipe that smokes well above its price.

I've had a handful of $6-7-800 pipes.. Some of them were phenomenal, some not so much. Are they worth the money? Not from a smoking perspective.. A cob pretty well trumps every briar I've ever had. Lol. Are they worth it from a vain perspective? Absolutely, if you have the extra dough or in my case if you have true friends that love you.


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