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Bugsahearn

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Registration date : 2015-02-05

PostSubject: Re: Standard   Fri Aug 07, 2015 7:10 am

eklektos44 wrote:
Bugsahearn wrote:
eklektos44 wrote:
Richard Burley wrote:
Hey, nothin' wrong with smokin' green wood and putty. Laughing

I find the whole Savinelli are "fancy" pipes a bit curious...

Well the Savinelli: Punto Oro Petite Bordeaux (105) that monbla posted goes for 240. That's expensive for me but thats what a dunhill cost in 1947 so maybe I should be changing my view. That pipe is exactly what I was looking for PS monbla

$240 retail new nowadays isn't on the high end cost wise. Plus with patience you can always get them for less. And who doesn't like a bargain? Pipes that were expensive back in the 80's to me I'm picking up now for a song. Patience seems to be the key.

I'm gonna start looking for old kaywoodies I tell ya what...but are the stingers removable? I dont like stingers
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puros_bran
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PostSubject: Re: Standard   Fri Aug 07, 2015 7:14 am

On the ones I've seen they are removable. Now that I've said that you will buy one and it won't come out. Lol.
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Bugsahearn

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PostSubject: Re: Standard   Fri Aug 07, 2015 7:16 am

puros_bran wrote:
On the ones I've seen they are removable.  Now that I've said that you will buy one and it won't come out.   Lol.

Lol I've always avoided them because I thought they were stuck in there...atleast the drinkless i thought i read that somewhere
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Bugsahearn

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PostSubject: Re: Standard   Fri Aug 07, 2015 9:43 am

monbla256 wrote:
Bugsahearn wrote:
monbla256 wrote:
If it is ALL as you say, "... a racket" then Savinelli has done it well for over 100 years now and STILL produces a LOT of pipes, more the Dr. G yearly, enjoyed by millions of smokers world wide. Just an observation Twisted Evil Twisted Evil

Rackets tend to stick around since there's money in them...consumer culture is full of m. I'm sure savinelli pipes are great...but does a new savinelli smoke better than old grabow? Savinelli might make more pipes nowadays but there was a time when grabow made more...a time when pipe smokers didnt believe you had to pay extortion rates for a good pipe. How much did the average dunhill sell for in 1950...and how much does it sell for now? Is the price increase inline with inflation value? I'd bet not...and I'd also bet the pipes produced in 1950 were a hell of a lot better than the ones produced now. My view is that companies are all about max profit margins...meaning they are going to make the pipe for as a cheap as they possibly can and sell it for as much as they can. Now this doesnt mean that dunhill or savinelli is going to use the cheapest components, materials available...but it means they are going to use the cheapest they can get away with without the consumer noticing.

PS another thing thats important to remember is that expensive doesnt mean better. Most of us are brainwashed and simply can't wrap out minds around this. Flashy cars are a good example of this, slap some shiny plastic and fancy brand name and bam millions of suckers will pay hundreds of thousands for it. Racket! capitalism is full of it. Dunhill's sold for 17.50 in 1947. I'd bet by ass those smoke the new ones out of the water. and how much was 17.50 in todays value? 213.32 so that actually is pretty expensive!

Kaywoodies cost 426 dollars in todays value. Its hard to imagine smokers spending that much in 1947 but maybe i'm wrong and things havent changed

With that viewpoint ALL of EVERYTHING'S a "racket" as you say so why do you even smoke a pipe ? Twisted Evil

well everything is definitely a racket but that ain't gonna stop me from smokin
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eklektos44

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PostSubject: Re: Standard   Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:27 am

Here ya go. Nice Savinelli billiard new w/free shipping from a reputable seller. $81.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SAVINELLI-PIPE-ROMA-129-NEW-/221796327226?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item33a4175f3a
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Richard Burley

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PostSubject: Re: Standard   Fri Aug 07, 2015 12:01 pm

Bugsahearn wrote:


well everything is definitely a racket but that ain't gonna stop me from smokin

So we're all racketeers, pretty much? Just curious. scratch

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Bugsahearn

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PostSubject: Re: Standard   Fri Aug 07, 2015 12:11 pm

Richard Burley wrote:
Bugsahearn wrote:


well everything is definitely a racket but that ain't gonna stop me from smokin

So we're all racketeers, pretty much? Just curious.  scratch


Listen mug I know I am
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Bugsahearn

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PostSubject: Re: Standard   Fri Aug 07, 2015 12:14 pm

eklektos44 wrote:
Here ya go. Nice Savinelli billiard new w/free shipping from a reputable seller. $81.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SAVINELLI-PIPE-ROMA-129-NEW-/221796327226?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item33a4175f3a

Thanks I'll look through 4 noggins. That's ones not my style but I could pay that price for a good pipe. Now hears my question...do you really think a new savinelli is better than a 60s grabow? Keep in mind that grabow used the same briar as dunhill back then according to an ex worker. What's your opinion just a question
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monbla256

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PostSubject: Re: Standard   Fri Aug 07, 2015 12:31 pm

Bugsahearn wrote:
eklektos44 wrote:
Here ya go. Nice Savinelli billiard new w/free shipping from a reputable seller. $81.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SAVINELLI-PIPE-ROMA-129-NEW-/221796327226?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item33a4175f3a

Thanks I'll look through 4 noggins. That's ones not my style but I could pay that price for a good pipe. Now hears my question...do you really think a new savinelli is better than a 60s grabow? Keep in mind that grabow used the same briar as dunhill back then according to an ex worker. What's your opinion just a question

Now THAT's NEWS for sure!! Grabow used oil cured Algerian Briar back in the '60s!! Sounds like you need to stick with them on the used pipe end!! Twisted Evil Me I'll ALWAYS be be willing to buy a Savinelli, now matter what the series!! I have at last count, 26 of 'em !! Twisted Evil
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Bugsahearn

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PostSubject: Re: Standard   Fri Aug 07, 2015 1:02 pm

monbla256 wrote:
Bugsahearn wrote:
eklektos44 wrote:
Here ya go. Nice Savinelli billiard new w/free shipping from a reputable seller. $81.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SAVINELLI-PIPE-ROMA-129-NEW-/221796327226?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item33a4175f3a

Thanks I'll look through 4 noggins. That's ones not my style but I could pay that price for a good pipe. Now hears my question...do you really think a new savinelli is better than a 60s grabow? Keep in mind that grabow used the same briar as dunhill back then according to an ex worker. What's your opinion just a question

Now THAT's NEWS for sure!! Grabow used oil cured Algerian Briar back in the '60s!! Sounds like you need to stick with them on the used pipe end!! Twisted Evil  Me I'll ALWAYS be be willing to buy a Savinelli, now matter what the series!! I have at last count, 26 of 'em !! Twisted Evil

I'm trying to expand my horizons so i've been looking at everyman's, kaywoodies or some of the others you guys suggested. I still prefer to buy new old stock pipes because for one they can be very cheap and two because i like old things. I always thought they just made it shit better in general 50 years ago.
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Bugsahearn

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PostSubject: Re: Standard   Fri Aug 07, 2015 1:47 pm

I thought this was interesting, no idea if its true or not:

Originally Posted by Marty Pulvers
Every so often, an internal issue captures the attention of all pipe hobbyists and demands thoughtful analysis and commands many column inches of copy. Issues such as that provide satisfaction to me because I stay far away from them.

No, what brings me to the fore is rumor and gossip...the stuff fueled by insinuation and innuendo of a quality that would make old Senator Joe McCarthy proud.We are lucky to have just such a topic hitting the market, in the guise of a story in Pipes & Tobaccos magazine. We are talking about the article on Dunhill, which has a number of hobby veterans annoyed, their claim being this is purely a puff piece.

Yes, it is a puff piece, but isn't everything that Pipes & Tobaccos publishes a puff piece? I haven't seen a single pipe maker labeled mediocre and over priced. We old timers have seen this before, when Bruce Spencer
published a magazine that avoided any whiff of honest criticism in its aim to promote the hobby to sell more magazines. Correspondent Regis McCafferty (who writes and collects money from Pipes & Tobaccos as have
I) notices this unenlightened self-interest about the magazine and it's hard to disagree with his assessment.

Much of the criticism of the Dunhill article centers on credibility. The Dunhill spokesman alleges only 5% of the briar they buy, specifically dedicated to produce Dunhills, makes it into a pipe and the rest is burned. Why would they have such a difficult time buying wood that is as worthy as everyone else's briar? Nobody throws that much briar away, including the most
exclusive, high grade pipe makers. Plus, if the Dunhill briar is so much better than the Parker & Charatan briar, as he claimed (foolishly, I should think) why not use it for those pipes if it is already on hand and superior? It makes no sense at all.

What is credible is the statement that Dunhill's Stephen Wilson made to P&T writer Stephen Ross, saying that "I can tell you that the same quality standards in place in 1969 are still in place today." Sadly, according to Bill
Ashton Taylor in a conversation we had in England a few years ago, Dunhill's quality standards nose-dived in 1968 when they went to using an 8 pipe frasing machine and ceased their oil-curing process. I think Bill Taylor had a good handle on how Dunhill operated. He worked there for 25 years. I personally question the statement that "all White Spot (notice the absence of the word 'Dunhill' the craven dogs) pipe bowls are turned at the factory in north London."

Bjarne Nielsen told me, point blank, that Dunhill came to him during the RTDA and asked him to sell them bowls. Bjarne explained to Dunhill that the only bowls he could possibly make available to them was inferior briar
because he used all the good pieces. According to Bjarne, and I did not misunderstand or mis-hear any of this, the Dunhill people said they did not care. Now, as far as I am concerned, after years of close observation
(Bjarne stayed at our home for a number of years during his annual pipe-sellng trip to Northern California) Bjarne was incapable of fabricating such a story. Furthermore, he requested that I not repeat the story, which I did not while he was alive. He's dead now and I feel no obligation to keep quiet. You, of course, are fully licensed to believe who and what you want.

I also have heard information, directly from the owner of a pipe factory in France, that they make pipes for Dunhill and have for years. But, when it comes down to taking the stand and raising my right hand, it has to be
acknowledged that I am dealing in second hand information. I have no first hand information with which to finger that Dunhill article as a pack of prevarication. It is, as suggested above, a bunch of innuendo and insinuation, a low form of communication in which I excel...as do so many other people, many of whom, unlike me, call themselves public informants.
I'm sure that I don't need to tell you that whatever it is you want to believe, that is what is true.

http://www.puff.com/forums/vb/general-pipe-forum/106426-dunhill-made-pipes-2.html
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Bugsahearn

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PostSubject: Re: Standard   Fri Aug 07, 2015 5:40 pm

puros_bran wrote:
It means Kaywoodie started cutting corners and didn't stop until they have the pipe they now produce.    You can't get something for nothing.

And go find anything that actually translates out in to those 'inflation dollars'.  Or better yet price your house out in those inflation dollars and let me buy it for that price.  Lol.  

The 'racket' of inflation dollar pricing is deeper than I care to get into here.. But The basic gag is CPI. but you have to figure in labor value, energy cost, the shift in historic and contemporary standard of living into that.  IIRC there's 7 differing ways to measure 'inflation dollars' and they all garner extremely different results.  


I'm not trying to be an ass.. If you want a cheap pipe that smokes well just go get a Missouri Meershaum corn cob.   If you want an extremely economical pipe that you will enjoy the rest of your life go snag that historic English pipe or plop down >$100 and get a new Peterson or Savinelli etc.  they will outlast you, your kids, and probably your grandkids if cared for... Look at all those 60-70-80 year old pipes on eBay for proof.    

Also, Savinelli isn't a high end brand.  They have some higher priced lines but by and large they are a lower end priced pipe that smokes well above its price.

I've had a handful of $6-7-800 pipes.. Some of them were phenomenal, some not so much.  Are they worth the money?  Not from a smoking perspective.. A cob pretty well trumps every briar I've ever had. Lol.  Are they worth it from a vain perspective?  Absolutely, if you have the extra dough or in my case if you have true friends that love you.


This is an interesting point puros...I've always wondered how accurate inflation is and I watch alot of old movies so its on my mind frequently. I feel like in alot of 40's movies they say "I'll start you at 50 bucks a week" and the person says "that'd be swell!". I feel like there is one bogart or raft movie where someone says 'Ill start you at 25 bucks a week" and raft/bogie says "Be careful or you'll kill the kid with your generosity (sarcastic).
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puros_bran
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PostSubject: Re: Standard   Fri Aug 07, 2015 6:23 pm

Yeah and NYC housing averaged $8per square then. It averages $1100 per square now.

To equate that in wage terms.. How long has it been since someone said "We'll start you at $7500 a week kid."?
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Bugsahearn

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PostSubject: Re: Standard   Fri Aug 07, 2015 7:49 pm

puros_bran wrote:
Yeah and  NYC housing averaged $8per square then.  It averages $1100 per square now.

To equate that in wage terms.. How long has it been since someone said "We'll start you at $7500 a week kid."?

Right your on to something there. It seems like inflation is relative to individual costs of rent/food/wage/etc...don't forget tobacco!! Haha
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puros_bran
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PostSubject: Re: Standard   Fri Aug 07, 2015 8:14 pm

That's why I mentioned historic cost of living and contemporary cost of living. It's also notable that in the time we are discussing the majority of homes were single income.

For all of our "progressive" & "enlightened" ways, and with all of our new gadgets and distractions Real quality of living has decreased. Some blame corporations, some blame government, and some even blame average Joe consumer.. I don't know who/what to blame, or even if blame can be leveled at any one individual institution. I just know it's real.
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eklektos44

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PostSubject: Re: Standard   Fri Aug 07, 2015 8:37 pm

Bugsahearn wrote:
eklektos44 wrote:
Here ya go. Nice Savinelli billiard new w/free shipping from a reputable seller. $81.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SAVINELLI-PIPE-ROMA-129-NEW-/221796327226?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item33a4175f3a

Thanks I'll look through 4 noggins. That's ones not my style but I could pay that price for a good pipe. Now hears my question...do you really think a new savinelli is better than a 60s grabow? Keep in mind that grabow used the same briar as dunhill back then according to an ex worker. What's your opinion just a question

Well, you can find pipes for $39,$49,$59 on P&C. But I have no idea about the manufacturers at all. Savinelli, Chacom, Comoy's, ect. have been around for years. They make decent pipes. They also make pipes in a range of costs. Comoy's makes a pipe called the "Tradition" which come in standard shapes, no frills. About the same price range as the Savinelli. Kaywoodie, ect were good pipes back in the day. And there are many people who collect them. But the better ones aren't all that inexpensive, or easy to find. It's a matter of taste really. I don't like stingers, or screw in stems. So they don't appeal to me. But other people don't mind them, or find ways to work around them. So there's no right answer. But I personally don't subscribe to the "old pipes are better pipes" theory. They made good pipes then, they make good pipes now. It's all what you prefer.
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monbla256

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PostSubject: Re: Standard   Fri Aug 07, 2015 9:54 pm

"But I personally don't subscribe to the "old pipes are better pipes" theory. They made good pipes then, they make good pipes now. It's all what you prefer. "

I think this really sums it all up. I have "old" Sav's and "new" ones and they ALL smoke well, are made well, and were reasonable for what quality level they are. I bought ALL of them new and with age, as do most quality briars do, they smoke better! I only use Savinelli as an example as they have been brought up in this thread and have experience with them. But as you have said it's ALL a RACKET and ALWAY'S has been Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Ya pays ya money and ya takes ya chances as it ALWAYS HAS BEEN Twisted Evil Twisted Evil
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Bugsahearn

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PostSubject: Re: Standard   Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:46 pm

when an old stem is oxidized and u use brebia polish on it will the polish cover up the oxidation taste or is this method not enough?
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eklektos44

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PostSubject: Re: Standard   Sat Aug 08, 2015 12:19 am

Bugsahearn wrote:
when an old stem is oxidized and u use brebia polish on it will the polish cover up the oxidation taste or is this method not enough?

I haven't used Brebbia polish, but I have used Soft Scrub. The trick is to rinse the stem really well and then dry it.
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Bugsahearn

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PostSubject: Re: Standard   Sat Aug 08, 2015 2:47 pm

eklektos44 wrote:
Bugsahearn wrote:
when an old stem is oxidized and u use brebia polish on it will the polish cover up the oxidation taste or is this method not enough?

I haven't used Brebbia polish, but I have used Soft Scrub. The trick is to rinse the stem really well and then dry it.

hey thanks i'll try that out. I spent last night looking all for the web for the standard looking pipe I've been looking for...it's actually ridiculous how few pipes fit this criteria.

I think i am going to try a savinelli monbla....this one is pretty close to what I mean...althought I'm looking for a darker stain (walnut?) https://smokingpipes.com/pipes/new/savinelli/moreinfo.cfm?product_id=163351
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Bugsahearn

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PostSubject: Re: Standard   Sat Aug 08, 2015 2:54 pm

I do like the Punto you posted thanks. Is it really only 5 inches? I like that I'm not very fond of a long stem any longer than 5.75 and I feel like it looks funny
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eklektos44

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PostSubject: Re: Standard   Sat Aug 08, 2015 3:12 pm

Bugsahearn wrote:
eklektos44 wrote:
Bugsahearn wrote:
when an old stem is oxidized and u use brebia polish on it will the polish cover up the oxidation taste or is this method not enough?

I haven't used Brebbia polish, but I have used Soft Scrub. The trick is to rinse the stem really well and then dry it.

hey thanks i'll try that out. I spent last night looking all for the web for the standard looking pipe I've been looking for...it's actually ridiculous how few pipes fit this criteria.

I think i am going to try a savinelli monbla....this one is pretty close to what I mean...althought I'm looking for a darker stain (walnut?) https://smokingpipes.com/pipes/new/savinelli/moreinfo.cfm?product_id=163351

Make sure you use the Lemon Soft Scrub if you're going to use it.
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Bugsahearn

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PostSubject: Re: Standard   Sat Aug 08, 2015 3:14 pm

Here's a good example of what I consider a perfect pipe. If this was unsmoked I would buy it:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/361287236351?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

" />
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Richard Burley

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PostSubject: Re: Standard   Sat Aug 08, 2015 3:59 pm

That's a good one, but a collector's piece, hence the seemingly high price. Referring back to your original post, I thought I knew exactly what you were talking about, so I googled some images of pipe smokers in movies, especially the images with high resolution. I now don't think the pipes you see in those old movies are all that plain or simple. They do tend toward classic shapes, but there's a lot of variance there. They may look plain from a distance, but closer examination often shows good pedigree, even non-classic shapes. For example, here's one of the "plainest" I could find. The actor is Jean Gabin playing Maigret, and the pipe is obviously a Comoy. Frankly, if I were really jonesing for a classic straight billiard, I would have Jesse Jones make me one to my specifications and forget any further hand-wringing and to-and-fro. Hey, you said you'd go for $225 if the above were unsmoked. Wink

" />
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Dutch

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PostSubject: Re: Standard   Sat Aug 08, 2015 4:14 pm

Bugsahearn wrote:
Here's a good example of what I consider a perfect pipe. If this was unsmoked I would buy it:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/361287236351?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

" />

Bugs, you wouldn't want the pipe from that seller, even if it was unsmoked. There are ethical sellers on ebay, you just have to know who is who.
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