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Bub

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PostSubject: Re: Be aware of your surroundings   Tue Aug 16, 2016 1:35 pm

PB promised: "Find me a single mass shooting outside of a 'gun free zone' in the last 20 years and I'll vote for your girl in November."
OK PB, you have a deal.
Just for the record...do you mean outside or inside?
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puros_bran
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PostSubject: Re: Be aware of your surroundings   Tue Aug 16, 2016 1:41 pm

Outside a gun free zone.
Every mass shooting has occurred in a Gun Free Zone. There's a reason.

Gun free zones don't work. Period. Because only the good guys take their guns off. I don't understand why folk like you can't understand that.

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Richard Burley

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PostSubject: Re: Be aware of your surroundings   Tue Aug 16, 2016 1:56 pm

Every true believer in "common sense" gun control has a sign in their front lawn stating that the residence is a gun-free zone. Keeps bad things from happening. Remember, common sense is the means by which we know that the earth is flat.
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Bub

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PostSubject: Re: Be aware of your surroundings   Tue Aug 16, 2016 1:59 pm

OK I will work on it
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Bub

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PostSubject: Re: Be aware of your surroundings   Tue Aug 16, 2016 2:02 pm

"Remember, common sense is the means by which we know that the earth is flat."

This is becoming a logic free zone
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Fumus

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PostSubject: Re: Be aware of your surroundings   Tue Aug 16, 2016 2:27 pm

A few years back, a friend of mine who was living in Escondido at the time, came up for a visit.  As we were walking back to my truck, having gone to the store for some breakfast items, an older red GMC pickup went by on the main road, with a rifle rack in the back window.  My friend, noticing the rifle in the rack (looked like a mini 14 to me), chuckled and commented that in southern California the gentleman driving that old truck, wouldn't  have even gotten out of his driveway before being descended upon by at least two swat teams and possibly the national guard, just for good measure.  Around here though, most people don't even notices such things, and probably wouldn't care if they did.  As I reflected on the vast differences in response between southern California and here, it seemed to me that, to an extent at least, it comes down to assumptions.  Here we don't immediately assume that the man driving the truck is a deranged mass murderer on his way to the nearest clock-tower, nightclub, or mall.  We're more apt to figure that he is probably a farmer or rancher, and the rifle is simply a tool for protecting his property/livestock.  The same way we figure that the chainsaw in the bed of the truck is probably a tool for cutting firewood or what have you, and not an integral part of some deep seated fantasy to live out favored scenes from Texas chainsaw massacre.

      Maybe the folks down in So-Cal have such a dim view of their fellow man, simply because of their close proximity to so many of their fellow men.  (shrug)
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DireWolf

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PostSubject: Re: Be aware of your surroundings   Tue Aug 16, 2016 5:26 pm

Knee-jerk gun nuts writing off and insulting someone with a reasoned and personal opinion is awful boring too.

Signed,

A CCW Permit Holder
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puros_bran
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PostSubject: Re: Be aware of your surroundings   Tue Aug 16, 2016 5:33 pm

LOL

Look Mr Superior showed up..

I've been put in my place, I'm sure Bub will come along and lay palms at your horses feet as you ride off into the sunset.


Signed,
Nobody needed saving here.

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Bub

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PostSubject: Re: Be aware of your surroundings   Tue Aug 16, 2016 6:59 pm

PB, lets forget the palms beside I couldn't find them on Amazon.
I am still trying to find a way to have you vote for my girl in November.
Does a gun free zone that is being guarded by an armed security person count?
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puros_bran
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PostSubject: Re: Be aware of your surroundings   Tue Aug 16, 2016 7:57 pm

Countless people have tried to find one and failed. Lott released a study some time back stating exactly what I did but he went back to 1950 (I think) The anti-gunners have tried changing the definition of mass shooting, attempting character assassination, and even went so far as to attempt to add Active Shooters to the initial report so they could refute that. Lol.

The problem with "commen sense" Gun control is we all ready have it, we don't enforce it. You may be thinking "PB, are you really going to try that old line?" Yes I am. You must fill out an ATF FORM 4473 before purchasing a firearm. The 4473 ask if you have mental issues, drug issues, if you have rejected your citizenship and pledged allegiance to another country,if you are a felon or have been so much as accused of domestic violence, etc,etc. When you finish checking the correct boxes the gun dealer calls the FBI for a background check. If you are denied do you know what happens? You walk out of the gun store. You committed a felony, the FBI knows your name, address, and pants size. Why aren't there any arrest? Because it doesn't fit the narrative.

Those black market sales? It's not Average Joe Gunner.. He wants to protect his hobby. It's criminals selling guns to criminals. And it's not hard to find, go to armslost.com when you see a $400 gun selling for $600 and no mention of a 4473, or having a CCDW, etc it's pretty clear what's going on. Why aren't they busted? Because if they started getting serious about that nonsense gun crimes would start to diminish, and that doesn't fit the narrative.

When hoodie rat or red neck idiot post the gangster pics on social media showing themselves to be carrying a firearm underage, and usually carrying one to a school, why is there no prosecution. When a guy robs a bank with a gun why does he end up getting probation, or shock probation, or early parole?

If we are going to be serious let's start being serious, After we've started enforcing what have we can then pause to see if we need more. As it stands "common sense gun control" is a sham.

However, after all that.. It's not called the bill of needs.

I'm all about keeping guns out of the hands of criminals. I'm also all for keeping guns away from those that are suffering known mental issues with likelihood of aggression. But that last part should be very limited in scope and should be revisited from time to time...A guy has a nervous breakdown cause his old lady left him, yeah he doesn't need access. The problem is once that stigma is attached to ya, your rights are permenantly revoked, by the people the rights were implemented to protect you from.
Continued later.

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Bub

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PostSubject: Re: Be aware of your surroundings   Tue Aug 16, 2016 10:31 pm

While this may not be acceptable under the second amendment can we list some of the requirements that should be necessary for gun ownership.
In the spirit of an open discussion let me list a few:
1) Attending and passing an NRA sponsored course on guns. I had to do this before I could fire a 22 at summer camp. I still remember that a 22 bullet can travel a mile.
2) Since a gun is owned by someone I am not sure how we check out that person. Is this the real problem? If you have a record of gun violence you should not get a gun. If you have been institutionalized for violence you should not get a gun. We can go on and on with this list, and there certainly will be LOTS of exceptions that people react to, but our constitutions says that citizens should have access to guns. Unfortunately these weapons have become more lethal and more available over the past 200 years. If you believe that I am trying to abolish the second amendment then you are trivializing my efforts. I am trying to find that happy space where gun owners and people who fear guns can find common ground. If none can be found, then so be it.
Any suggestions?

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puros_bran
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PostSubject: Re: Be aware of your surroundings   Wed Aug 17, 2016 10:20 am

Felons are prohibited from possessing guns, Even a misdemeanor Domestic Violence conviction prohibits someone from possessing guns. Even a domestic violence Charge prohibits one from possessing guns until either convicted or proven innocent. When we let a friend live with us after his now ex-mother in law claimed he pulled a gun on her I had to remove my firearms and his from our home. (I know he was innocent because he'd brought me all his firearms the day before she accused him).
Those with mental illness diagnosis (regardless of how minor) are prohibited from possessing guns.
Those with drug addiction are prohibited from possessing guns.
And on and on. These people aren't legally purchasing guns. They are purchasing them on the black/grey market.
You know the so-called "they purchased their guns online without a background check) it's true. You can purchase firearms online without a bad ground check. The problem for those not qualified to possess guns is they online company ship the firearms to a FFL (Federal Firearms License) holder of your choosing and then the FFL holder runs the background check. In other words, buying online is no more an option for those disallowed possession than going to a local store (usually theses same stores are the ones that will process a online sell for you).
Could the system use some tweaking? Sure, but we need to prosecute the felonies already being committed before we start jotting down more things that should be felonies. It's like the anti-gunners what to sit down and discuss the water bill while water is pouring out the burst water main.

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puros_bran
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PostSubject: Re: Be aware of your surroundings   Thu Aug 18, 2016 2:00 am

I am utterly shocked this hasn't been moved to the rubber room.. then again if I'm being honest I'm not sure why I haven't been banned, anyway, back to guns.

I had called off any furtherance of guns and ammo stashing for the zombie 'pocalyse... Hadn't really much more than onced over the various flyer in the mail. Then last week, "What do you want for your birthday?" A train? A gun? A computer? My mind raced because I really have had that part of my brain caged up. "I don't know." I don't know turned into a Roku stick, I had a Roku box but gifted it to a couple we were a little slow on the uptake about. Well wouldn't ya know it, darn thing didn't work where I needed it to work. So we were out and about this am and she says "You want to go to Bardstown?" (kYGUNCO). Nancy Reagan thought us to just say No.. and I did, but had she asked me twice, coulda ended differently. I told her I needed a Springfield Armory SOCOM 16 and she said okay. Lol. This has got to be a set up, That think would be more than an entire month of my disability after taxes n what not.

I keep going back to Budsguns and looking at those M&P9. Then I saw they have some FEG Hi-power instock. If you need a good beater pistol or perhaps you are on a tight budget but want to exercise your right to self defense, FEG Hi-power are awful hard to beat. They are faithful copy of the C series of Browning Hi-Power. I shot them in high school, one of my best buds had the real deal. The parts were completely interchangeable. Do a little history on the Browning hi-power if you aren't well versed.
I think I've changed my mind. It doesn't hold as many rounds on one hand, it has a soul and history on the other...plus it's not made out of Tupperware. So there's that.

Any of you care to share what you carry? Not what would you carry, what DO you carry?

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Richard Burley

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PostSubject: Re: Be aware of your surroundings   Thu Aug 18, 2016 2:30 am

Colt Combat Commander .45, ramped, ported, long trigger, three-dot sights staked and silver-soldered, hex-head grip screws. Needs a beavertail grip safety, then I'll be done with it. Damn, it's late. I'm going to bed.
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PostSubject: Re: Be aware of your surroundings   Thu Aug 18, 2016 12:03 pm

You sure you really want to know that PB?

If so.......a Russian TT33 highly modified and converted to 9mm.
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puros_bran
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PostSubject: Re: Be aware of your surroundings   Thu Aug 18, 2016 7:43 pm

I had both 9mm and 7.62.
I liked the 7.62 because it penetrated way mo betta. Class III Armor with Trama Packs? Pfft Whatever.

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AJ

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PostSubject: Re: Be aware of your surroundings   Fri Aug 19, 2016 4:25 am

In NC a person must take a course in Gun Safety, Gun Laws, and show Proficiency in Firearm Use on a firing range before that person can apply to carry a concealed handgun. After applying a background check is conducted by the County Sheriff's Department after the applicant has provided a set of his fingerprints to the Sheriff. The fingerprints are submitted to the FBI and the SBI where they investigate to find out if the applicant has any criminal record. Only after all of the steps have been completed and the report shows that the applicant has no prior convictions or history of mental illness will he/she be given a permit to carry a concealed handgun.
I have a CCW Permit and I NEVER leave the inside of my house unless I'm carrying one of my handguns. Below was written by someone I never met but it states very clearly why I always carry my gun. Neutral

AJ
 



PEOPLE ASK  WHY?
 
Why Carry a Gun?
 
My old grandpa said to me 'Son, there comes a time in every man's life when he stops bustin' knuckles and starts bustin' caps and
usually it's when he becomes too old to take an ass whoopin.'

I don't carry a gun to kill people.
I carry a gun to keep from being killed.

I  don't carry a gun to scare people.
I carry a gun because sometimes this world can be a scary place.

I  don't carry a gun because I'm paranoid.
I carry a gun because there are real threats in the world.
 
I don't carry a gun because I'm evil.
I carry a gun  because I have lived long enough to see the evil in the world.
 
I don't carry a gun because I hate the government.
I carry a gun because I understand the limitations of government.
 
I don't carry a gun because I'm angry.
I carry a gun so that I don't have to spend the rest of my life hating myself for failing to be prepared.
 
I don't carry a gun because I want to shoot someone.
I carry a gun because I want to die at a ripe old age in my bed, and not on a sidewalk somewhere tomorrow afternoon.
 
I don't carry a gun because I'm a cowboy.
I carry a gun because, when I die and go to heaven, I want to be a  cowboy.
 
I don't carry a gun to make me feel like a man.
I carry a gun because men know how to take care of themselves and the ones they love.
 
I don't carry a gun because I feel inadequate.
I carry a gun because unarmed and facing three armed thugs, I am inadequate.
 
I don't carry a gun because I love it.
I carry a gun because I love life and the people who make it meaningful to me.
 
Police protection is an oxymoron.
Free citizens must protect themselves.
Police do not protect you from crime, they usually just investigate the crime after it happens and then call someone in to clean up the mess.
 
Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take an ass whoopin'.....author unknown (but obviously brilliant)
 
**********************************************
A LITTLE GUN HISTORY

In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
 ------------------------------

In 1911, Turkey established gun control. >From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
 ------------------------------

Germany  established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.
 ------------------------------

China  established gun control in 1935. >From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
 ------------------------------

Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
 ---- ------------- -------------

Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
 ------------------------------

Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million educated people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
 -----------------------------

Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control: 56 million.  
------------------------------

You won't see this data on the US evening news, or hear politicians disseminating this information.

Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws adversely affect only the law-abiding citizens.

Take note my fellow Americans, before it's too late!

The next time someone talks in favor of gun control, please remind them of this history lesson.

With guns, we are 'citizens'.  Without them, we are 'subjects'.

During WWII the Japanese decided not to invade America because they knew most Americans were ARMED!

If you value your freedom, please spread this anti gun-control message to all of your friends.


The purpose of fighting is to win.
There is no possible victory in defense.
The sword is more important than the shield, and skill is more important than either.
The final weapon is the brain.
All else is supplemental.  

SWITZERLAND ISSUES EVERY HOUSEHOLD A GUN!
SWITZERLAND'S GOVERNMENT TRAINS EVERY ADULT THEY ISSUE A RIFLE.
SWITZERLAND HAS THE LOWEST GUN RELATED CRIME RATE OF ANY CIVILIZED COUNTRY IN THE WORLD!!!

IT'S A NO BRAINER!
DON'T LET OUR GOVERNMENT WASTE MILLIONS OF OUR TAX DOLLARS IN AN EFFORT TO MAKE ALL LAW ABIDING CITIZENS AN EASY TARGET.
 
I'm a firm believer in the 2nd Amendment!
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puros_bran
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PostSubject: Re: Be aware of your surroundings   Fri Aug 19, 2016 4:40 pm

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Bub

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PostSubject: Re: Be aware of your surroundings   Fri Aug 19, 2016 8:54 pm

I used to think that my post were worth a million bucks, but now this is my 2 cents worth. The other day I was talking to a private investigator who was working a case in our neighborhood. He volunteered that he was not carrying a firearm because it would increase his insurance rates too much and be too much of a hassle. Was he being honest with me?....I think so.
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puros_bran
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PostSubject: Re: Be aware of your surroundings   Fri Aug 19, 2016 9:22 pm

Different deal.
Depending on the various state laws: He's probably got to be bonded and insured to keep his license.

On post being the definitive answers to all the worlds problems: I quit caring what anyone though about what I say a long time ago. Sometimes I'm right, a lot of times I'm dead wrong.. I'll still argue my wrong until whoever I'm talking to gives up and moves on. Lol. FWIW: I'm not wrong on the gun issue. The founding fathers had just defeated the strongest military in the world, they weren't about to let anyone take the win from them. You wanna know why I won't vote Trump 16? No, but I'll tell you anyway. That damn wall might start out noble, with the guards looking out, but invariably those guards turn around, and welcome to totalitarian state. Eff that. I have no delusion my little 380 is going to stop a totalitarian regime, but if every one of us have them they'll at least pause before getting too stupid.

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PostSubject: Re: Be aware of your surroundings   Sat Aug 20, 2016 2:24 am

puros_bran wrote:
I have no delusion my little 380 is going to stop a totalitarian regime, but if every one of us have them they'll at least pause before getting too stupid.

This is exactly why our forefathers gave us the Second Amendment. It serves to keep the Government in check. Without it we'll all become slaves to a tyrannical government within a short period of time and have Queen Hillary sitting on her throne in the White House until she dies of nastiness. No

AJ
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PostSubject: Re: Be aware of your surroundings   Sat Aug 20, 2016 9:23 am

And exactly why they want to take them...

I'd go shooting today to commemorate this thread as it should be, but I'm home alone and if I fell over out there I'd be there until Sunday night. Lol.

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PostSubject: Re: Be aware of your surroundings   Tue Aug 30, 2016 3:33 pm

GeoffC wrote:
Well I live out in the boonies.   Police station is pretty darn far away.   I wasn't sure they were following me until they turned into my neighborhood.   That was the confirmation.   Doing the old switcharoo and catching head on let them know I knew and they took off.   Calling the police in my area would take about 30 minutes to respond.  i'm in the county which is why I am now serious considering carrying.   I wasn't really interested in trying to stop and take license plate, make and model. Mad

I am glad to hear that you are safe. Another vote for concealed carry from me!

I also live out in the woods a bit. A few years back when I was working the closing shift at Barnes & Noble, a couple of nights in a row I noticed a pick up truck in the parking lot when it was closing time. No biggie, we had a number of people that had rides pick them up when it was closing time. No one was allowed to leave the store alone, we would all walk out to our cars together. Well this was the third night I noticed this pick up truck. I got in my car and headed home. I noticed that the pick up truck was behind me. Again, no biggie, several of the folks I work with leave the same way I do. Well it was about two turns later on my way home when this truck was still behind me that I started to get nervous. We live just minutes from town, but it's a fair bit away from the police and pretty remote for where it is. By the third time I turned and the truck was still behind me I called Andy at the house and said, "Someone is following me and they just turned onto our road behind me." Andy said he'd be waiting at the top of the drive and if he wasn't there by the time I drove by to keep on going and head for the Sheetz gas station in town. (Well lit, lots of people) Well I got to our driveway and there standing at the top was Andy backlit with the floodlights from the garage, Mossberg 500 in hand waiting for me. I didn't even bother with a turn signal, just slipped into the driveway. The truck slowed enough to see Andy and then ripped on up the road. Man I was never so glad to see my Sweetie as that night! Talk about a night in shining armor!

The next day I told my boss about it and when the truck showed up again in our parking lot that night he went out and told the guy he would call the cops if he found him on company property ever again. That was the last we saw of him.

It was about that time that I requested Andy teach me how to properly handle a handgun and that I started researching handguns for myself for concealed carry.
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