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Vito

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PostSubject: This Brit predicted it...   Tue Sep 27, 2016 5:08 am

Brit commentator Pat Cordell predicted the current assault on the First Amendment seven years ago, boys and girls:



Well, it's happening. Brothah LL pointed the finger at it in his 'Orwell's "Ministry of Truth" is becoming real as we speak' post.

It's happening all over the nation, folks...and nowhere more virulently than on college campuses, where speaking the truth is labeled "micro-aggression" if it upsets some self-prepossessed dipstick's delicate sensibilities. It doesn't matter if what you say is true; in fact, speaking the truth is the most offensive thing of all.

It's axiomatic that liars have the most hatred for the truth. So, it's no accident that some of the most fervent supporters of Mr. Obama's chosen, notoriously mendacious presidential candidate consider the First Amendment their biggest enemy. They cannot handle the truth, so their goal is to criminalize it.

It has already happened in Europe. Sweden has surrendered without a fight. And now they're trying to do it here. Hostility toward the truth is one of the hallmarks of a declining civilization...and it's one of the consequences of being part of entire generations who do not value their freedoms because they've never had to defend them.

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Richard Burley

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PostSubject: Re: This Brit predicted it...   Tue Sep 27, 2016 10:45 am

Pat Condell, one of my heroes. Love that guy. And I agree completely with your pre-obituary of the first amendment.
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PostSubject: Re: This Brit predicted it...   Tue Sep 27, 2016 3:18 pm

Remember folks, the Constitution is written in invisible ink. The Bill of Rights is not much better. It's a list of privileges, nothing more. Privileges can be given and taken away. Watch them fly..............

The thought that the common man can influence and enforce laws is called anarchy. Those who would oppose the Status Quo are labeled terrorists.

We don't want to be terrorists now, do we? You have to win to be called Freedom Fighters.

The American Dream is for those asleep.

By careful manipulation, the populace have been scared into DEMANDING curtailment of any free thinking, radical idealisms, and 'Rights'. Anyone with their toes sticking out are going to be complaining they're offended. Hell, you can look at folks these days and get in trouble for menacing or psychological assault. A hand shake could be biological warfare.

Good morning Sunshine, time to get up on your hind legs and dance with the big boys. Or just quit whining and eat your gruel. (mumble, mumble, mumble............)
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kitobi

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PostSubject: Re: This Brit predicted it...   Tue Sep 27, 2016 3:27 pm

I feel sorry for you guys. at least when our politicians shaft us now they have the common decency to spit first.

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PostSubject: Re: This Brit predicted it...   Tue Sep 27, 2016 3:47 pm

kitobi wrote:
I feel sorry for you guys. at least when our politicians shaft us now they have the common decency to spit first.


Conscious I might be going a little of thread.... I caught a bit of the Trump / Clinton debate on BBC's Radio 4 this morning and it reminded me of the recent EU referendum; both sides hell bent on discrediting the other rather than focus on their own positives. Like the referendum, it just sounded like playground stuff and a quantum leap away from what I'd imagine you'd want sat in the Oval Office. Suspect
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PostSubject: Re: This Brit predicted it...   Tue Sep 27, 2016 4:21 pm

Stick wrote:
kitobi wrote:
I feel sorry for you guys. at least when our politicians shaft us now they have the common decency to spit first.


Conscious I might be going a little of thread.... I caught a bit of the Trump / Clinton debate on BBC's Radio 4 this morning and it reminded me of the recent EU referendum; both sides hell bent on discrediting the other rather than focus on their own positives.  Like the referendum, it just sounded like playground stuff and a quantum leap away from what I'd imagine you'd want sat in the Oval Office.  Suspect

Only our best and finest representatives get to play..... How else would the rest of the planet get to form opinions of our fair country?
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kitobi

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PostSubject: Re: This Brit predicted it...   Tue Sep 27, 2016 4:37 pm

Ozark Wizard wrote:
Stick wrote:
kitobi wrote:
I feel sorry for you guys. at least when our politicians shaft us now they have the common decency to spit first.


Conscious I might be going a little of thread.... I caught a bit of the Trump / Clinton debate on BBC's Radio 4 this morning and it reminded me of the recent EU referendum; both sides hell bent on discrediting the other rather than focus on their own positives.  Like the referendum, it just sounded like playground stuff and a quantum leap away from what I'd imagine you'd want sat in the Oval Office.  Suspect

Only our best and finest representatives get to play..... How else would the rest of the planet get to form opinions of our fair country?

318 million people live in America and they were your best 2 ????
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Stick

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PostSubject: Re: This Brit predicted it...   Tue Sep 27, 2016 4:40 pm

kitobi wrote:
Ozark Wizard wrote:
Stick wrote:
kitobi wrote:
I feel sorry for you guys. at least when our politicians shaft us now they have the common decency to spit first.


Conscious I might be going a little of thread.... I caught a bit of the Trump / Clinton debate on BBC's Radio 4 this morning and it reminded me of the recent EU referendum; both sides hell bent on discrediting the other rather than focus on their own positives.  Like the referendum, it just sounded like playground stuff and a quantum leap away from what I'd imagine you'd want sat in the Oval Office.  Suspect

Only our best and finest representatives get to play..... How else would the rest of the planet get to form opinions of our fair country?

318 million people live in America and they were your best 2 ????

In that case, you heard this here first....


PB for President!!!! cheers
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PostSubject: Re: This Brit predicted it...   Tue Sep 27, 2016 4:55 pm

[quote=

In that case, you heard this here first....


PB for President!!!!  cheers [/quote]



Now that's a candidate I'd stand behind

Jim
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Vito

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PostSubject: Re: This Brit predicted it...   Tue Sep 27, 2016 5:09 pm

Stick:

I made it a point not to watch the "debate", which I expected to be a pissing contest over who was the biggest prick. (I'd expect Hillary to have the edge on that one.)

I've seen a little of what Mr. Trump has to say. Sounds like classic campaign rhetoric to me. Frankly, he puzzles me. I can't believe he's naive enough to think the deeply entrenched, institutionalized interests are going to let him shake things up as much as he promises to do. He obviously knows how to get things done in the real world, but whether that will translate to success in the bizarre, fantasy world of politics seems questionable, if not doubtful. He's a wild card; I don't know if anyone can be sure what he'll do.

By contrast, "Mrs." Clinton is pure establishment—the embodiment of institutionalized corruption and fraud. She cares about one thing only—her ambition. She has lied so much I don't think she's even capable of recognizing the truth any more. But she's not a wild card; she has made it very clear what she intends to do, and I believe she'll do it. Anyone who values the Constitution should be very, very afraid if she grabs the power she craves.

So, once again we're faced with the same kind of choice we've had to live with for a long time now — namely, whom to vote against. The kind of person I would vote for doesn't have a chance in this political process.

Well, there really isn't any choice, as far as I'm concerned. I have to vote for Trump, whose principal qualification is that he's not Clinton. I'd rather take the chance that he might do some good than accept the certainty that she'll stomp what's left of our freedom into the dirt.

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PostSubject: Re: This Brit predicted it...   Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:01 pm

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

It happened before.

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PostSubject: Re: This Brit predicted it...   Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:23 pm

PB for President!
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PostSubject: Re: This Brit predicted it...   Tue Sep 27, 2016 11:29 pm

That was actually triggered (if the moronic anti-everything can be triggered so can a hillbilly) by your statement Ozzy. The Constitution doesn't give any man or women their rights... It enunciates their god given rights and places limits on the government, not the citizenry. That We The People have allowed a bunch of holier than thou, self indulgent, meglomaniac, lawyers tell us otherwise was the first and the fatal mistake.

As my good friend Vito often says, "The Revolution wasn't the Rebellion, the Revolution was the thought that man ought to be free to self-govern himself".

Look around, do you see any self-governance? I sure as hell don't. I see quite the opposite, people clamorimg for more chains. Might as well dust off those old negro spirituals because we are every bit the slave they were.

PS: They wouldn't allow me on the same street as the White House, much less in the place. They'd Vince Foster me in a heartbeat.

Vote early, vote often, give all your dead kinfolk a ride to the polls..they ARE going to vote, they might as well be there.

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Last edited by puros_bran on Wed Sep 28, 2016 12:37 am; edited 1 time in total
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LL

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PostSubject: Re: This Brit predicted it...   Tue Sep 27, 2016 11:51 pm

Vito wrote:


I made it a point not to watch the "debate", which I expected to be a pissing contest over who was the biggest prick. (I'd expect Hillary to have the edge on that one.)

I've seen a little of what Mr. Trump has to say. Sounds like classic campaign rhetoric to me. Frankly, he puzzles me. I can't believe he's naive enough to think the deeply entrenched, institutionalized interests are going to let him shake things up as much as he promises to do. He obviously knows how to get things done in the real world, but whether that will translate to success in the bizarre, fantasy world of politics seems questionable, if not doubtful. He's a wild card; I don't know if anyone can be sure what he'll do.

By contrast, "Mrs." Clinton is pure establishment—the embodiment of institutionalized corruption and fraud. She cares about one thing only—her ambition. She has lied so much I don't think she's even capable of recognizing the truth any more. But she's not a wild card; she has made it very clear what she intends to do, and I believe she'll do it. Anyone who values the Constitution should be very, very afraid if she grabs the power she craves.

So, once again we're faced with the same kind of choice we've had to live with for a long time now — namely, whom to vote against. The kind of person I would vote for doesn't have a chance in this political process.

Well, there really isn't any choice, as far as I'm concerned. I have to vote for Trump, whose principal qualification is that he's not Clinton. I'd rather take the chance that he might do some good than accept the certainty that she'll stomp what's left of our freedom into the dirt.

Reading that was one of the strangest sensation-experiences I've had in a long time.  Not only did Vito just say exactly what I think of the situation, but his writing style is so similar I did a double take to be sure he hadn't cut-and-pasted something I had written somewhere before as an inside joke.

Truly bizarre.
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Vito

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PostSubject: Re: This Brit predicted it...   Wed Sep 28, 2016 2:13 am

LL:

There is ample precedent for our shared perspective, and it has worked in reverse more often that not. Usually, you say it before I do.  

Ozark Wizard wrote:
PB for President!


Ozzie: But that's exactly what the problem is, mah brothah. The belief that it's possible to elect someone to solve our problems for us is precisely how we've managed to institutionalize the chaos that necessarily results from such a success-proof system. And sure enough, the system is doing the only thing it can do—namely, breed more chaos.

PeeBee has absolutely nailed it. The Declaration of Independence embodies the spirit of the Revolution. Living its principles isn't a job that Someone Else™ can do for us. No one is going to give us freedom, especially not a bunch of politicians. Freedom—the ability to control our own lives and property, and not control anyone else's—is something we have to create for ourselves.

That's what the Declaration is about. It's not someone else's job. The perennial, persistent, pernicious superstition that it's somehow possible to fix everything using the political process is the reason nothing will ever be fixed. The political process itself is the problem, not the solution.

When enough folks realize that the price of freedom is personal responsibility, then we'll make some progress. Until then, all we've got is bread and circuses. That's already been tried, and we all know where it goes.



p.s. PeeBee doesn't want the job...and if he did, that would disqualify him. Think about it. Wink


Last edited by Vito on Wed Sep 28, 2016 4:07 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Fixed a typo error; changed "never" to "ever")
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PostSubject: Re: This Brit predicted it...   Wed Sep 28, 2016 4:19 am

If I were president, I'd be Commander in Chief. If I were Commander in Chief I'd throw a military coup to topple my own government. Then I'd wear a Colonel Uniform with lots and lots of flash, oh and mirrored glasses. I'd hang out most all day smoking some decent cigars and having War Councils with my generals. I suppose occasionaly I'd have to give statements on the public broadcasting system. "Death to the Great Satan of the West..blah blah yada yada or somemsuch,". I might have them drive tanks behind me as I announce there are no American infidels in Washington, Muhammed Saeed al-Sahaf style (Baghdad Bob). I still laugh about that 25 years later.

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PostSubject: Re: This Brit predicted it...   Wed Sep 28, 2016 9:53 am

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PostSubject: Re: This Brit predicted it...   Wed Sep 28, 2016 10:44 am

[/quote]

Conscious I might be going a little of thread.... I caught a bit of the Trump / Clinton debate on BBC's Radio 4 this morning and it reminded me of the recent EU referendum; both sides hell bent on discrediting the other rather than focus on their own positives. Like the referendum, it just sounded like playground stuff and a quantum leap away from what I'd imagine you'd want sat in the Oval Office. Suspect [/quote]

Well I sent a letter to the Queen requesting to borrow Prince Harry for a couple of years until the politial parties can field some better candidates. She said that was too bad and we're on our own!
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PostSubject: Re: This Brit predicted it...   Wed Sep 28, 2016 12:39 pm

Bosun, Mom is still pissed off over the temper tantrum we threw when she said we couldn't move out. Wink

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PostSubject: Re: This Brit predicted it...   Wed Sep 28, 2016 2:04 pm

Holy cow, this is getting heavy!

What's clear is how passionate you guys feel about your current options. As said above, remarkable that these two bounders are the best you've got.
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Ozark Wizard

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PostSubject: Re: This Brit predicted it...   Wed Sep 28, 2016 2:22 pm

The funny thing about all of this is, it really doesn't matter whom the poster child is for the Corporate States of America. What difference whether brand 'X' or brand 'Y' is a better product, when it's the same content with a different label? The Sponsors pay for the race, not the drivers..... The spectators get to pay for tickets, and cheer for their team. Bread and Circuses.

Might as well just keep Barack Hussein in, for all the difference it makes. Or dig up John Wayne and prop him up in the House. The game is afoot, and we don't get a shot at the dice folks....

So relax, prop your feet up, turn on the game and wash your meds down with the latest soft drink craze. Or a nice IPA. Shake your head and say smugly to yourself, 'well, if I were in charge, things would be different'....lol!
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Vito

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PostSubject: Re: This Brit predicted it...   Wed Sep 28, 2016 3:58 pm

Stick wrote:
...remarkable that these two bounders are the best you've got.


Stick: See, that's exactly what I mean about the political process being a superstition. As with all superstitions, everyone believes it's something that it can't possibly be.

The assumption that, because these two bounders have risen to the top, they must necessarily be "the best we've got" is upside down. In fact, by its very nature, the system brings the very worst to the top. Anyone who is actually paying attention knows that, but when someone has the effrontery to say it out loud, everyone treats is as though it were a joke, or excessive cynicism, or curmudgeonry, or cantankerous contrarianism, or "negativity".  

It is none of those things; it is the truth.

The fact that these two bounders (how very English...I love it!) are vying for the top spot is precisely indicative of just how focked up the system really is. We're living in the natural consequences of a system that inevitably brought us to this point because it was never real government in the first place. I'm not blaming the founders; they didn't know it was going to turn into this...they probably couldn't know it was going to become such a mess.

But none of that matters. We have the mess anyway, and it's obvious that the American Revolution is the primary casualty. Go back and read the text of the Declaration in PeeBee's post. It says it all right there. And what it says ain't what we've got.

Look at it this way. In science we have theory and we have application. The theory is a description of nature...of how it works, as far as we can tell to the best of our ability at the time. Then we try to apply it. The preliminary applications are always primitive, clumsy affairs. We don't blame the theory; instead, we try to improve our applications. The first televisions were crude applications of Maxwell's electromagnetic theory. Today we have much better technology. The theory didn't change; it has always been right. What has changed is our ability to apply it properly.

The Declaration is the theory. The problem is that we've put it on the shelf and forgotten about it. We've enshrined it as A Founding Document™, but we otherwise ignore it. We don't consult it when we make our stupid laws.

Hell, we don't even consult the Constitution any more, and the Constitution is only an application — one application, and a primitive one at that. It's not the only possible application, and evidently it's not even the best application. But it's better than what we've got now.  

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PostSubject: Re: This Brit predicted it...   Wed Sep 28, 2016 5:58 pm

So does this mean I do or do not get to be The Colonel running this banana republic? I need to get my blues tailored, well really with as big as my ass has got it would be trailered but I need to know, they close at 6.



But seriously the constitution is the perfect application, as long as the citizens hold the servants in check.   It says exactly what we expect them to do, and tells them in no uncertain terms what they can not do. We let them, so being truthful its our own fault.

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PostSubject: Re: This Brit predicted it...   Wed Sep 28, 2016 6:09 pm

Ozark Wizard wrote:
The funny thing about all of this is, it really doesn't matter whom the poster child is for the Corporate States of America. What difference whether brand 'X' or brand 'Y' is a better product, when it's the same content with a different label? The Sponsors pay for the race, not the drivers..... The spectators get to pay for tickets, and cheer for their team. Bread and Circuses.

Might as well just keep Barack Hussein in, for all the difference it makes. Or dig up John Wayne and prop him up in the House. The game is afoot, and we don't get a shot at the dice folks....

So relax, prop your feet up, turn on the game and wash your meds down with the latest soft drink craze. Or a nice IPA. Shake your head and say smugly to yourself, 'well, if I were in charge, things would be different'....lol!  

You nailed it Wiz. We are the United Corporation of America and have been since the end of WW II. All this stuff about the Delaration and Constitution only apply to an organization as we started with when we were the United States of America. The only thing that matters today is STUFF and how much we have.  Onward thru the fog ! Twisted Evil Twisted Evil
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PostSubject: Re: This Brit predicted it...   Wed Sep 28, 2016 6:41 pm

Vito wrote:
Stick wrote:
...remarkable that these two bounders are the best you've got.


Stick: See, that's exactly what I mean about the political process being a superstition. As with all superstitions, everyone believes it's something that it can't possibly be.

The assumption that, because these two bounders have risen to the top, they must necessarily be "the best we've got" is upside down. In fact, by its very nature, the system brings the very worst to the top. Anyone who is actually paying attention knows that, but when someone has the effrontery to say it out loud, everyone treats is as though it were a joke, or excessive cynicism, or curmudgeonry, or cantankerous contrarianism, or "negativity".  

It is none of those things; it is the truth.

The fact that these two bounders (how very English...I love it!) are vying for the top spot is precisely indicative of just how focked up the system really is. We're living in the natural consequences of a system that inevitably brought us to this point because it was never real government in the first place. I'm not blaming the founders; they didn't know it was going to turn into this...they probably couldn't know it was going to become such a mess.

But none of that matters. We have the mess anyway, and it's obvious that the American Revolution is the primary casualty. Go back and read the text of the Declaration in PeeBee's post. It says it all right there. And what it says ain't what we've got.

Look at it this way. In science we have theory and we have application. The theory is a description of nature...of how it works, as far as we can tell to the best of our ability at the time. Then we try to apply it. The preliminary applications are always primitive, clumsy affairs. We don't blame the theory; instead, we try to improve our applications. The first televisions were crude applications of Maxwell's electromagnetic theory. Today we have much better technology. The theory didn't change; it has always been right. What has changed is our ability to apply it properly.

The Declaration is the theory. The problem is that we've put it on the shelf and forgotten about it. We've enshrined it as A Founding Document™, but we otherwise ignore it. We don't consult it when we make our stupid laws.

Hell, we don't even consult the Constitution any more, and the Constitution is only an application — one application, and a primitive one at that. It's not the only possible application, and evidently it's not even the best application. But it's better than what we've got now.  


Hey Vito,

You've written some very intriguing posts in this thread. I've enjoying reading them very much and they have provided an interesting perspective.

As I'm sure you picked up, the comment regarding 'the best you've got' was written with pure sarcasm. I don't believe for one minute Trump or Clinton are two of the finest leaders you have. Just listening to them for a few minutes confirms that. It is remarkable though that despite the many alternatives the system is such that you're left with these two; for all the reasons you point out.

Until recently I worked in a large organisation that had more than its fair share of bounders, one of whom had consistently wrecked the lives and careers of many. Everyone could see this yet the system allowed it to continue and all the while he was getting paid a handsome salary. I learnt only yesterday that he has finally been caught out but my guessing is that due to his position a cover up will ensue. But he got away with it for a whole career.

So here's the interesting thing. I've mentioned 'the system' a few times here, and 'the organisation'. But what are these exactly? They are made up of people making choices and decisions. In other words, in my example, conscious choices and decisions were made that allowed him to continue negatively affectively many. An organisation or system requires people in order for it to function. So I guess in your context, what decisions were made by whom that led to the two bounders making it to the final two?
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