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 How far we have come?

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Bub

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Registration date : 2007-12-15

PostSubject: How far we have come?   Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:15 pm

It's one of 180 lots linked to space travel that Sotheby's is auctioning off July 20 to mark the 48th anniversary of the pioneer lunar landing on that date in 1969.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/neil-armstrong-moon-dust-apollo-11-sothebys-auction-new-york/
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hobie1dog

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Age : 61
Location : Cornelius, NC
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PostSubject: Re: How far we have come?   Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:43 pm

The 20 photos from the article are fantastic.
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Bub

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PostSubject: Re: How far we have come?   Sun Jul 16, 2017 6:10 pm

Since I go back a few years, I remember how much concern there was about extraterrestrial contamination and how precious the sample the sample were. Now they are being auctioned off to the highest bidder. Who knows they may even be Russians.
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Richard Burley

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Location : North Coast NY
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PostSubject: Re: How far we have come?   Sun Jul 16, 2017 7:23 pm

It's weird; I'm not a Luddite or technophobe or anti-exploration or anything like that, but space flight is something that has always left me cold. I just don't give a damn. Very strange. I'd pay 50 bucks for the lot, strictly as a curiosity.
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Bub

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PostSubject: Re: How far we have come?   Sun Jul 16, 2017 7:36 pm

Fifty bucks wont cut it
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Richard Burley

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Location : North Coast NY
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PostSubject: Re: How far we have come?   Sun Jul 16, 2017 7:52 pm

Yeah, it's interesting. I guess. Hey, check out the guy at 6:46.
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Ozark Wizard

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Age : 53
Location : Mark Twain National Forest, MO
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PostSubject: Re: How far we have come?   Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:05 pm

That was so cool! We just don't get out like we used to. What an adventure!
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hobie1dog

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Age : 61
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PostSubject: Re: How far we have come?   Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:10 pm

Thanks for sharing this with us, first time I have watched this video clip since watching it at the actual time that I was glued to the TV set.
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Brewdude

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Age : 65
Location : Near the Emerald city
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PostSubject: Re: How far we have come?   Tue Jul 18, 2017 7:13 pm

Remember seeing all this live as it happened back in '69.

Was with the folks on the annual vacation. I was 16 or 17 at the time, and we were camped somewhere that had power to some of the campgrounds. Wandered over to one site that had a small B&W set tuned to this and watched it in amazement!



Cheers,

RR
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Bub

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PostSubject: Re: How far we have come?   Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:38 am

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Bub

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PostSubject: Re: How far we have come?   Sat Jul 22, 2017 8:06 am

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Ozark Wizard

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PostSubject: Re: How far we have come?   Sat Jul 22, 2017 12:08 pm

I saw that on the news! What a great return for that gal!
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hobie1dog

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PostSubject: Re: How far we have come?   Sat Jul 22, 2017 7:18 pm

There's more people with money to burn than ever before, and today just like every other day 20K people die of starvation No
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Vito

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PostSubject: Re: How far we have come?   Sun Jul 23, 2017 11:36 am

hobie1dog wrote:
There's more people with money to burn than ever before, and today just like every other day 20K people die of starvation No

hobie1dog: Correct me if I'm mistaken, but you seem to be implying that there is something immoral about the auction transaction...and by extension, all other transactions in which the payment constitutes "money to burn" while thousands of others starve to death. The implication is that there's a causative connection between the two.

I respectfully disagree. Whatever the number of people who starve to death, I do agree that it's a preventable tragedy, and it probably bothers me at least as much as it bothers you. But to suggest that others whose pursuit of happiness involves transactions that harm no one else are somehow responsible for those deaths is way off the mark.

Besides, how do you know what will happen with the proceeds from the auction sale? How do you know that it won't be put to some positive purpose of which you approve?

I'll give you an example. I happen to know of a recent auction in which some scientific papers by Albert Einstein were sold for a large sum of money...far more than the auction estimate predicted.

It didn't make the news because...well, who cares about notes written by one of the greatest physicists of the 20th century? "Moon dust bag" is an easy concept for most people to grasp. Theoretical physics that has already changed the lives of the human species for the better in ways they don't even suspect...that's beyond their ken.

As it turns out, the proceeds from that auction have already been put to use in work that ultimately will help prevent the starvation tragedy that both you and I deplore. So, was the purchase price "money to burn"?

It's easy for us to judge the things other people do, and I'm just as judgmental when what they do actually harms others. But a voluntary transaction, where buyer and seller get together and exchange value for value, either directly or through an intermediary—especially when it harms no one else—is not part of the problem. What's more, it's none of my business...or anyone else's.

If you're looking for culprits to hold responsible for death by starvation, start with the so-called "governments" under whose watch such deaths occur. I'll bet you that those tragedies happen in places where coercion (both legalized and illegal) thrives.

Starvation happens in places where there is rampant poverty, institutionalized by political systems that destroy opportunity and incentive, and punish those who have the effrontery to be productive and prosperous. That's a much bigger problem than people who engage in voluntary private transactions that don't harm anyone.

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Richard Burley

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PostSubject: Re: How far we have come?   Sun Jul 23, 2017 12:49 pm

Yeah but, Vito, if we strip the wealthy of their money and feed the poor for a while until the money runs out, we can all starve together equally. Wink
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hobie1dog

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PostSubject: Re: How far we have come?   Sun Jul 23, 2017 1:33 pm

This is a better choice Vito:
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Vito

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PostSubject: Re: How far we have come?   Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:24 am

Richard Burley wrote:
Yeah but, Vito, if we strip the wealthy of their money and feed the poor for a while until the money runs out, we can all starve together equally. Wink

Right again, Richard. That's the logical extension of the mentality that justifies robbing Peter to feed Paul under the guise of "fairness", accusing Peter of "greed" into the bargain, simply because he is more prosperous.

The fact that he might have gotten that way by the sweat of his brow is apparently irrelevant. "Society" has decreed that he should not have more while others have less, and the powers that be are willing to coerce the hell out of him if he doesn't submit.

It's absurd for so many reasons. For one thing, the same "sweat of his brow" argument is used on behalf of the beneficiaries of such plunder. I mean, they work hard too. Why shouldn't they be just as prosperous?

That's called the labor hypothesis of value — a bogus concept that asserts that the value of any product or service is determined solely by the amount of effort it took to produce and deliver it. Adam Smith came up with that one...the one significant flaw in his Wealth of Nations.

Alas, Karl Marx zeroed in on that error with unerring accuracy and made it the basis of his philosophy, ignoring everything else that was right about Smith's work. It's not even true; value is subjective to the person who is the market for the product or service, not the one who produces it. Ultimately, every market is a buyer's market.

The seizure and redistribution of assets via legalized coercion is wrong because all coercion is immoral, but those who advocate it will never buy the moral argument. They want the power it gives them...and that goes for the pseudo-capitalists who suppress opportunity for others, protecting their wealth via political corruption.

But there's a rational argument as well (...not that statists are especially amenable to rationality either). The notion that those who have less are justified in stealing from those who have more presumes that wealth is static...as though there's only so much to go around, and we have to divvy it up so everyone gets his "fair" share.

Such a simplistic notion appeals to people who think with their emotions and don't look for fundamental causes, but more perceptive minds understand that wealth is created...it's produced. Ideas, imagination, ingenuity, and innovation coupled with productive work are the wellspring of everything we call valuable in the marketplace.

The notion that it's somehow fair and compassionate to steal from the most productive people and redistribute it to others is a double whammy that's pulling civilization down by the throat. It enslaves the recipients by making them increasingly dependent on the state, and kills incentive for everyone else.

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hobie1dog

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PostSubject: Re: How far we have come?   Mon Jul 24, 2017 1:29 pm

Vito, what did you think of the video?
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Vito

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PostSubject: Re: How far we have come?   Mon Jul 24, 2017 2:17 pm

hobie1dog wrote:
Vito, what did you think of the video?


I haven't had time to watch the whole thing yet, hobie1dog. I've been busy working on a different approach.  

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Ozark Wizard

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PostSubject: Re: How far we have come?   Mon Jul 24, 2017 2:47 pm

Indeed, value is in the eye of the beholder. That stands out in bold relief...  Also agree with the idea that if the the wealth was divided equally, then the effort should be as well. Equal effort is also terribly remiss. The system is running as it should, because those whom are motivated do more than the complainers of the system. History has ample examples of those with 'less' usurping the existing and then installing an alternate.

And the wheel goes 'round.

Anyway, it will be nice to be around to watch a Martian landing. Heck, even mining an asteroid would be cool!
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Bub

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PostSubject: Re: How far we have come?   Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:03 pm

How far we have come is no longer a question...it is now a statement!
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