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 What in the Heck happened to C&D's cut?

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DrumsAndBeer

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Age : 46
Location : Northern, CA
Registration date : 2012-04-04

PostSubject: What in the Heck happened to C&D's cut?   Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:42 pm

I opened a new tin of Laurel Heights and this is what I was greeted with.  Question   Question



Seriously? This stuff is very thin cut but not quite slipping into the realm of shag, very uncharacteristic for a GLP blend. I wish I had an older tin to show you guys a comparison but I smoked it. However, trust me when I say that the cut was a bit thicker with way less of what I like to call "chatter" aka. little bits & pieces. This blend has always been similar to anything you'd expect in a thick ribbon cut GLP blend, a cut on par with Union Square, Embarcadero or Fillmore.  Does anyone know what happened with C&D that could possibly spurn this change in their processing? Frankly, I am disappointed.
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Richard Burley

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Location : North Coast NY
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PostSubject: Re: What in the Heck happened to C&D's cut?   Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:31 pm

C&D might know; ax them. I have some cellared, still in tins--hope it's "right" and not botched or whatever's going on.
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DrumsAndBeer

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Age : 46
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PostSubject: Re: What in the Heck happened to C&D's cut?   Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:37 pm

Yeah, I thought about shooting them an email but I wanted to check to see if anyone else had noticed a change in their cut before I jumped on them for a mislabeling or something botched. Plus this tastes like Laurel Heights only with an excellerated burn rate, (which I don’t particularly care for).
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Richard Burley

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Location : North Coast NY
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PostSubject: Re: What in the Heck happened to C&D's cut?   Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:48 pm

DrumsAndBeer wrote:
...this tastes like Laurel Heights only with an excellerated burn rate, (which I don’t particularly care for).

Screw that. They must atone. Wink
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DrumsAndBeer

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PostSubject: Re: What in the Heck happened to C&D's cut?   Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:05 am

Rick, you smoke Laurel Heights right? Does this resemble the cut that you’re used to seeing? Just checking...

I mean what I have is like a Sutliff cut..
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Richard Burley

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Location : North Coast NY
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PostSubject: Re: What in the Heck happened to C&D's cut?   Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:10 am

I'd would say no, and that you're correct. But I don't have any open at the moment for comparison. That cut doesn't look like anything from Pease that I've encountered. It kind of looks like "sweepings" or something.
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DrumsAndBeer

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PostSubject: Re: What in the Heck happened to C&D's cut?   Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:29 am

I agree. I think I am going to shoot them an email in the morning. All I know is that if they’re moving in this direction with their cut on LH, I am moving on from this mixture.
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Fight'n Hampsters

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Age : 40
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PostSubject: Re: What in the Heck happened to C&D's cut?   Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:58 am

I noticed the same thing last year and posted about it. I too was disapointed by it. It tasted different too, but that could have been due to age.

Did it taste or smoke differently?

http://www.brothersofbriar.com/t35528-shag-vs-ribbon-related-to-haddo-s-delight?highlight=haddo
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DrumsAndBeer

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PostSubject: Re: What in the Heck happened to C&D's cut?   Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:17 am

Smokes totally different. The old  broad cut was easy to feather along and smoldered nicely for a long cool smoke with plenty of subtle, slightly sugary flavor. This stuff doesn’t burn as slow so the wheels kind of fall off the flavor wagon around half way through a bowl. A thinner cut might work with other blends but this incarnation of LH tastes cheap.
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Richard Burley

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Location : North Coast NY
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PostSubject: Re: What in the Heck happened to C&D's cut?   Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:35 am

This needs to be addressed by someone with authority. IF they're dicking around with their blends, why would anyone stock up on them, or even buy them? You don't know what you're getting. I am now afraid to open my cans of LH and Haddo's.
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DrumsAndBeer

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PostSubject: Re: What in the Heck happened to C&D's cut?   Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:59 am

I sent Laudisi/SmokingPipes.com an email expressing my concerns this morning.

The cut of a blend is very important and should not be messed with. I specifically choose certain mixtures for their cut and their quality equally. IMHO, this cut does not work for Laurel Heights and even if the tobacco's the same it defeats the quality. Mad
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DrumsAndBeer

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PostSubject: Re: What in the Heck happened to C&D's cut?   Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:22 pm

Here's the change.

Old cut on top, new on bottom.

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Zeno Marx

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PostSubject: Re: What in the Heck happened to C&D's cut?   Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:32 pm

If you ask me, this creates a multitude of problems. Besides the smoking qualities and talk of altered cuts or recipes, it creates a problem for knowing whether you're getting what you purchased. Changing the cut is likely to be the most readily available marker to buyers and leaving them scratching their heads, "I ordered X, but did I receive X?" Humans DO NOT like to be confused. That dissonance is significant in my buying experience. It's why P&C plays with fire when they never seem to get an order 100% accurate. It's a surefire way to lose customers of a blend and ultimately of your entire service. I don't want to be confused. That's not part of the bargain.

How difficult would it be for blenders to snap a photo or two and send it out to their vendors? yes, it is yet another responsibility, but I feel it is a pretty damn key one. I keep running into blends that look nothing like the photos I see. How can that serve ANYONE well? We often talk about the govt screwing up tobacco, but I tell ya. Tobacco people don't seem to do themselves any favors. I might like X. I received Y instead of X, but I didn't know it. I didn't like Y, though I thought it was X. Now I'm not buying it again.

Sorry for the diatribe. I really think this is a huge problem with both blenders and vendors. It's not some small detail in the transaction.
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Fight'n Hampsters

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PostSubject: Re: What in the Heck happened to C&D's cut?   Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:56 pm

DrumsAndBeer wrote:
Here's the change.

Old cut on top, new on bottom.


yup. thats what my haddo looked like. pease blends were known for the broader cut.
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DrumsAndBeer

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PostSubject: Re: What in the Heck happened to C&D's cut?   Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:10 pm

Zeno, I appreciate your comments, very well put & I agree with your sentiments.

Well, like it or not here's the reply I received from SP.com.

I'm sorry to hear that you have noticed the difference in the cut of the C&D Laurel Heights blend. However,  C&D has refined there technique to a true ribbon cut instead of the rough cut you are used to. Unlike the thinness you would expect from the Dunhill blend, C&D uses the same blend and mix with a more refined, true ribbon cut, which is what to expect going forward with all there blends. I hope that this information is helpful to you. Please let me know if I can be of further assistance?

An across the board change in cut? More refined, true ribbon cut? WTF? 5)

How can you just blow up what your customers expect and have come to appreciate about your products over the years? Man, sorry but this sucks!
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DrumsAndBeer

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PostSubject: Re: What in the Heck happened to C&D's cut?   Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:32 pm

Further intel, and some good news for a change. I asked about the C&D flakes and according to SP.com they are unaffected by the change in cut.
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Ocelot55

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PostSubject: Re: What in the Heck happened to C&D's cut?   Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:12 pm

I may be in the minority on this one, but I actually appreciate the change in cut. I don't smoke a lot of C&D stuff, and one reason was that I could never get the cut to burn right for me. I guess everyone has different preferences and I'm sorry that DB is having such a rough time with the change.
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DrumsAndBeer

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PostSubject: Re: What in the Heck happened to C&D's cut?   Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:42 pm

Ocelot55 wrote:
I may be in the minority on this one, but I actually appreciate the change in cut. I don't smoke a lot of C&D stuff, and one reason was that I could never get the cut to burn right for me. I guess everyone has different preferences and I'm sorry that DB is having such a rough time with the change.

I think the new cut is going to be hit or miss from blend to blend. It might improve poor burning mixtures like Odyssey, which was always stubborn to take to flame. Hell even GLP went out of the way to suggest packing Odyssey with a lighter touch to circumvent the known issues with blending high percentages of Latakia and dark stoved VA's. However, at the same rate it may work against the types of mixtures that gain their complexities from smoldering slowly with the various components gently toasting at different rates.

Altogether, my biggest problem with this move is having to discover whether or not I acutally like a blend all over again because the manufacturer decided to change an integral part of their process and then not even bother to let the public know.

IMHO, they absolutely trashed Laurel Heights with the new cut, the little nuances (gentle citrus zest with wood smoke from the tiny blips of latakia) are gone. It has me wondering about Haddo's, Telegraph Hill and others that I really enjoy.

You got a good thing going and a solid following, why change it? Oh well.
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Zeno Marx

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PostSubject: Re: What in the Heck happened to C&D's cut?   Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:46 pm

Here's a question for you. Worst case, we'll beat the dead horse ourselves. Best case, a blender --or with Powerball lottery luck, more than one blender-- will offer up their opinion.

Just about every discerning smoker of any experience knows cut is important. On top of that, many smokers are repeat customers. The blend becomes part of the habit and pastime. I think we have to assume the blenders know this as well. When they change the cut, why aren't they telling us? Are they telling the vendors, and the vendors aren't relaying the information? I don't get it. With as close to the financial margins as everyone in pipe tobacco is probably playing it, why would they dare test their consumers and possibly lose them? "The customer is always right." In other words, they work for us. That's old school retail. Why wouldn't you take that philosophy to the extremes? Are you saying our business isn't important to you? Are they that poor at understanding business, especially a business that is more than likely losing numbers each day rather than adding them?

They're choosing to change the blend, so fear can't play into any of this. If they feared losing customer base over optional change, they would opt not to change. It's got to be either insult or ignorance.

So here's the question: Are they trying to pull one over on us, or do they genuinely not understand how important the cut is, thus they just sort of suck at business?

Again, I don't understand how they alter blends in any way and don't try to communicate that BEFORE their core base finds out the hard way.
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monbla256

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PostSubject: Re: What in the Heck happened to C&D's cut?   Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:43 pm

From what I've read, Greg is out of the tobacco blending business and C&D is continuing to make and retail "his" blends which might account for some of this change. Also, there have been some changes in the tobacco industry itself with much of it focusing on the export cigarette business and with the diminishing amount of pipe smokers there is a diminishing demand for many of the varieties of leaf needed domesticallly. A sign of the changes we face in the new century ! Twisted Evil Twisted Evil
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Zeno Marx

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PostSubject: Re: What in the Heck happened to C&D's cut?   Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:08 pm

That's fine. I think we understand supply/demand effects. What we don't seem to understand is when a blender changes something and then doesn't bother to communicate that with their customers. Cut was a choice, not a forced hand because leaf X wasn't available, or though that would seem. Tell us when you do something like that.

Or, update your friggin' pictures. Somehow. Communicate. It.
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monbla256

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PostSubject: Re: What in the Heck happened to C&D's cut?   Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:39 pm

Point taken and it's good but remember we all want their to be consistency in life and the only constant is change ! Twisted Evil Twisted Evil
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Ozark Wizard

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PostSubject: Re: What in the Heck happened to C&D's cut?   Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:56 pm

monbla256 wrote:
Point taken and it's good but remember we all want their to be consistency in life and the only constant is change ! Twisted Evil Twisted Evil

I totally agree with this. Change is the only true constant.

Looks like the majority of the blends from STG. They're pretty much the big dogs in pipe tobacco. Perhaps this is a sign?

Yes, cut can really influence a blend to my tastes. Packing will be different as well.
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huffelpuff

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PostSubject: Re: What in the Heck happened to C&D's cut?   Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:39 pm

Well that would explain the tin of Maltese Falcon I opened a couple of weeks ago. Super fine cut almost like RYO and burns hot as hadies. Certainly was not what I expected but never having had it before I figured that was how it should be. Dissapointing to say the least but spot on change is the only constant. I won't be bothering to get anything but flakes from C&D from here on.

Jim
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DrumsAndBeer

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PostSubject: Re: What in the Heck happened to C&D's cut?   Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:33 pm

huffelpuff wrote:
I won't be bothering to get anything but flakes from C&D from here on.

Jim

Like wise.

Personally I think their ribbon cut blends are now being outsourced, that would be the only explanation for this. Pure speculation though.

I'd feel a lot better about them if they came clean with the skinny on this or at the very least produced a list of everything that's affected. For instance what about the tumbled Old London series stuff (Chelsea Morning, Lagonda, Meridian) from GLP that's more of a chunky broken flake/ribbon cut?

Anyway time to find solace in my cellar. This is depressing...
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