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 OT: Weight Training Question

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Dock
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PostSubject: OT: Weight Training Question   Mon Nov 09, 2009 9:46 pm

I've been at it for about 6 months now and have tried a variety of crappy and rather expensive supplements. Has anyone here (that trains) had experience with using Muscle Milk?
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Puff Daddy
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PostSubject: Re: OT: Weight Training Question   Mon Nov 09, 2009 10:18 pm

Haven't tried that one. Used GNC AMP60 with good results but found MetRX to have more protein (46G) and also has the luciene, glutamine and arginine (amino acids) and costs a bit less. I usually take creatine monohydrate in cycles with the MetRX. They sell the muscle milk at the gym, nobody seems to be buying it there, not sure if that's indicative of their price point (cheaper elsewhere) or the product.

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Winslow

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PostSubject: Re: OT: Weight Training Question   Mon Nov 09, 2009 10:22 pm

Eat sensible low fat quality foods,the supplements only give you expensive urine.
The most important thing is persistence and coming to like working out.It's no discipline
to do something you enjoy.It takes a couple years to really change things.

Winslow sunny
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pipetongue1
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PostSubject: Re: OT: Weight Training Question   Mon Nov 09, 2009 11:48 pm

I eat pepperoni pizza with extra cheese & anchovies! tongue
Pacem en Mundhing! tongue
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PostSubject: Re: OT: Weight Training Question   Tue Nov 10, 2009 3:43 am

I second the pepperoni pizza (no anchovies on mine however lol)! cheers

Seriously though, I agree with Winslow that sensible eating is the key. Not easy in a society where most of the grocery stores and restaurants are filled to the brim with heavily advertised, extremely tasty, but extremely unhealthy foods, but it is possible, and very rewarding.
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Benjamin Button

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PostSubject: Re: OT: Weight Training Question   Tue Nov 10, 2009 12:30 pm

Dock,

Muscle Milk isn't bad, meaning you won't see any adverse effects from using it as long as you are training, but there are better (cheaper) alternatives than using that stuff. Invest in a good protein powder and maintain a healthy diet (6 meals a day minimum with well balanced protein/healthy fat/carbs). I personally use Optimum Nutrition Whey protein powder because of a few reasons. 1) It's clean. Meaning it doesn't have one hundred ingredients (like added creatine, NO2, etc.) in it like some other whey products. 2) It's not crazy expensive. 3) It actually tastes good and is easy to drink. The chocolate is awesome and I actually use the vanilla on my cereal.

Most other supplements (creatine, NO2/NOExplode, etc) are best to be used in cycles, but whey can be used every day, even on off days while your body recovers.

The prepackaged Muscle Milk drinks are good if you are in a bind and can't get home to make a shake, or you forgot to bring your protein to the gym. But otherwise, you will break the bank if you keep buying them, and you won't see any bigger gains from using that than from using a good clean quality whey protein.


-Adam
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PostSubject: Re: OT: Weight Training Question   Fri Nov 13, 2009 1:11 pm

Yeah, muscle milk does provide you with nice protien combined with BCAA's as well as glutamine, but it's overprices and has either too much sugar or carbs (or both).


I use regular 100 % gold standard whey protein by optimum. The only real advise I can give you is whatever protein you choose, make sure its protein isolate, not protein concentrate (like you would find at a wal mart) which is basically powdered milk.

Optimum now makes a hydro isolate, which means that it has been broken up further for quicker absorbption. So far I am liking it.


Protein is a must-have IMHO if you work out, especially with some intensity as it provides the essentials for muscle repair (which is what causes muscle growth).


I guess my short answer: it's fine, but it's overpriced, and I believe there are better values out there that will provide the same results.

BTW, I'm assuming you are taking it post work out for recovery prior to your post work out meal.
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PostSubject: Re: OT: Weight Training Question   Fri Nov 13, 2009 1:13 pm

Winslow wrote:
Eat sensible low fat quality foods,the supplements only give you expensive urine.
The most important thing is persistence and coming to like working out.It's no discipline
to do something you enjoy.It takes a couple years to really change things.

Winslow sunny

That's true and false. If youre body doesnt absorb it, you are actually crapping it out, not pissing. However, if you stimulate your muscles to where they are reparing (what is called recovery in body building), protein is what does this.

To get the protein that one needs would be impossible from just food if you work out like I do and I am willing to bet Doc does.
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Benjamin Button

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PostSubject: Re: OT: Weight Training Question   Fri Nov 13, 2009 2:08 pm

Texas Outlaw wrote:
Winslow wrote:
Eat sensible low fat quality foods,the supplements only give you expensive urine.
The most important thing is persistence and coming to like working out.It's no discipline
to do something you enjoy.It takes a couple years to really change things.

Winslow sunny

That's true and false. If youre body doesnt absorb it, you are actually crapping it out, not pissing. However, if you stimulate your muscles to where they are reparing (what is called recovery in body building), protein is what does this.

To get the protein that one needs would be impossible from just food if you work out like I do and I am willing to bet Doc does.

This is true. I've tried many supplements but for the sake of my wallet I have it narrowed down to a few things I take everyday and that I know my body will use. I take a good quality multi vitamin, really good quality fish oil, an antioxidant, a probiotic, and Optimum Nutrition whey protein isolate.
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PostSubject: Re: OT: Weight Training Question   Fri Nov 13, 2009 2:49 pm

Ben and I seem to be on the same page.

I don't consider protein powders supplementation though; I consider them food. With the way work goes, it prevents me from skipping meals, if you can call a protein a meal.

For the amount of real food products that it would take to equal the amount of protein you get in a shake or a tub of protein, I find it relatively cheap, even if I buy the more expensive protein brands.

Breakfast no. 1 is a protein shake.
Breakfast no. 2 is 2 cups of Special K with 2 percent milk.

The thing to realize here, is that if I don't have time to have my cereal at work, I have at least activated my metabolism to burn fat with my wake up protein shake.
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jabuhrer

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PostSubject: Re: OT: Weight Training Question   Fri Nov 13, 2009 5:11 pm

Have any of you guys ever heard of Athlete's Honey Milk?

http://www.athletesmilk.com/

They sell this at my gym (though it seems to be hard to find elsewhere, including supplement shops) and I find that it tastes a lot better than Muscle Milk. I don't do any serious weight training, but I do hit the gym 2 or 3 times a week, so these insights are helpful for me too. My main issue with this type of drink (as others have mentioned) is the cost, but TO has a convincing argument that it isn't so expensive if you consider it food. That's a good point Smile
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PostSubject: Re: OT: Weight Training Question   Sat Nov 14, 2009 1:42 am

well it has to do with how much protein your body needs. If you work out regularly with some intensity, you need about 1.5 g of protein per pound of body weight.

So let's assume you're not a fat fuck like me and weight around 200 lbs. That means you need 300 g of protein. So, you're gonna eat how much tuna, chicken, etc?

All of a sudden 49. 95 for a 6 pound tub of protein doesn't seem as bad. I just bought some t bones today that have protein (though not the best in terms of fat and saturated fat), and I can assure you that they were much costlier than a scoop of protein.

Still, it's good to get the best bang for your buck. I will still stand behind Optimum 100 Percent gold standard whey.

Fellas, if you've made the commitment and are going hard, then by all means spend what you need to feed your muscles.
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PostSubject: Re: OT: Weight Training Question   Sat Nov 14, 2009 1:43 am

If you don't get the appropriate amount of protein, your seriously just wasting your work out.


Also, I guess I should mention that I've been at it for 5 or 6 years. yes, I used to be bigger if you can imagine that. Today was my 4th visit to the gym, and I am only short shoulders and traps which I will finish up tomorrow as I will skip work. I am even considering taking a pay cut at work to have more time to devout to my 5 day split.
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Benjamin Button

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PostSubject: Re: OT: Weight Training Question   Sat Nov 14, 2009 11:41 am

Texas Outlaw wrote:


Breakfast no. 1 is a protein shake.
Breakfast no. 2 is 2 cups of Special K with 2 percent milk.

Haha, breakfast no. 1 for me is Special K Protein Plus cereal with a scoop of ON vanilla whey added and a scoop of ground flax seed. I have that with So Delicious unsweetened coconut milk (my gf and her son have dairy allergies so we usually have that unless I buy milk for myself).

Breakfast no. 2 is a natty peanut butter and banana (about 4 TB spoons of pb and one whole banana) on millet bread.

I am trying to bulk but not dirty bulk, so I try and eat an average of 6 times a day.
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Puff Daddy
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PostSubject: Re: OT: Weight Training Question   Sat Nov 14, 2009 11:05 pm

The protein ratio is to consume about a gram per pound of lean body mass, so for fat guys who weigh 300 pounds that number is still like 190. The other 100 pounds is fat and not considered in the lean mass calculation Laughing. For me, I'm trying to lose fat (inches, really) and build muscle mass at the same time. Trainers I've talked to have said that usually you try to either cut or bulk up but seldom do both at once - it's a tricky fine line and quite difficult. I've had some success (down 45 pounds and made some pretty good gains in muscle mass in the last 6 months) but have been cycling my diet and workout routines. I went for the muscle gain first consuming about 2,000 calories a day with about 200 grams of protein (lots of whey) and minimal carbs, lifting the heaviest weights I could, then cycled into about a 1500 calorie diet and lots of cardio, lifting only 3 times a week. I'm now back on the original routine but scaled the calorie intake back to about 1700. Still losing weight but making gains in mass. I usually eat 5 egg whites scrambled with fresh spinach for breakfast and a small shake before my workout, followed by a larger one right after with the creatine added. I usually eat a whole peeled grapefruit for a snack before a lunch of salad with fish or chicken. Afternoon snacks are almonds and blueberries ad maybe another small shake, followed by a light dinner. No empty carbs like bread or sugary stuff. So far so good. Biggest problem thus far (aside from workout limitations due to the shoulder surgeries) is some middle back pain. The doc says it's from not carrying a 50 pound basketball under my shirt anymore, that the spine is adjusting and the pain may stay around for a year or more before the spine heals itself and is fully readjusted from the physiological changes. Being overweight carries so many different levels of destruction on your body, it's amazing what my body's been going through. I never knew how messed up I was until it started coming off and I started getting fit again. Scary stuff....

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PostSubject: Re: OT: Weight Training Question   Mon Nov 16, 2009 11:46 am

True to a degree. For fat per muscle exchange, you still need more protein that than. Unless you do not work out at all, protein gets absorbed by your muscles regardless.
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PostSubject: Re: OT: Weight Training Question   Mon Nov 16, 2009 12:16 pm

Thanks for all the insight guys! It's much appreciated!

First of all let me say that I've been working out with weights and doing cardio for over a year now though I've only been seriously weight training for 6 months or so. In that time I've lost roughly 50 pounds and 6" from my waist. I've also gained signifigant muscle mass in my arms. I'm now 6'2 and 220 pounds w/ a 36" waist. I haven't been this size since highschool.

My current routine is six days a week concentrating on abs, pecs and arms as well as using the arc trainer (sorta like an eliptical) and running three or four miles outside for my cardio. I do incline and decline benchpresses, dumbell presses and crossovers with the pulleys. I use the ab machine and the exersise ball to do crumches. I use the arch trainer at a high intensity for 20 mins. It's sorta like running in sand.

The most stuborn part of the process has been my abs! I work the hell out of em' but still don't see definition! Can it be a "several yea"r process for them to tighten up??????????????????? Geez!
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Benjamin Button

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PostSubject: Re: OT: Weight Training Question   Mon Nov 16, 2009 1:17 pm

Danish_Pipe_Guy wrote:

The most stuborn part of the process has been my abs! I work the hell out of em' but still don't see definition! Can it be a "several yea"r process for them to tighten up??????????????????? Geez!

Dock,

I am not sure your exact routine but I'd say that you may be overworking your abs. I know some people may argue this but abs should be trained the same way as any other muscle group; work them hard, then let them rest. Many say you should work them every day, but I disagree.

Try doing an extremely intense ab routine for one day, then take a day of rest. As with all muscles, they don't grow while you are working them they grow while you rest (that pumped look after your work out is blood/water, which is why it unfortunately fades). I would advise doing multiple core exercises that utilize every ab muscle available. Machines are okay, but I don't feel as though they give you a good enough core workout, as they tend to isolate too much.

My all time favorite ab workout is the simplest I have ever done, and the one I have seen the best results from, the plank. Do a search for plank exercises because there are hundreds of variations, but you will feel EVERY core muscle work. It's incredible.

Another thing to consider as far as actually "seeing" your abs and/or all your muscles (because they ARE there, just hidden) is doing a cutting diet. Again, do a search for "cutting diet" and check out the before/after pics. You'll see what I mean. It's not the easiest diet to keep up, but it's awesome for beach season. : )
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PostSubject: Re: OT: Weight Training Question   Mon Nov 16, 2009 5:23 pm

Hey Ben,
Not to contradict you, but there are two muscles that can be worked every day, that is, without rest. Those are abs and calves. There is no over training with these muscle groups.

Hey guys, I need to get back to work; I'll get back on and finish this later.
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PostSubject: Re: OT: Weight Training Question   Mon Nov 16, 2009 11:16 pm


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PostSubject: Re: OT: Weight Training Question   Tue Nov 17, 2009 11:31 am

Doc, your work out sounds good. I try to do a 5 day split as we've discussed before.

Basically,
Mon
Chest
Tues
Back
Wed Legs
Thurs
Shoulders
Fri
arms

Due to work, I have to modify this somewhat as time allows

Monday I've been doing chest and back supersets when the ladies (that's what we call those that go camp out on equipment but dont actually use it) get off benches and stations.

I got to the gym after 7 last night, so I only got to do 5 sets of heavy incline bench press which I didn't get to super set because all of the back stuff was being used (mainly to sit on ).

Hit heavy lats. Then did free weight butterflies on the incline supersetted with seated rows which was the only thing I had available. I burned out here and went home about 8.


I do 4 sets because 3 doesnt get me the burn I like..


Today I'll get in there and do deadlifts (core exercise). Then do some military and maybe other shoulder stuff until my friend arrives after which we will do heavy squats on the squat station (not the hack squat or press). This will usually do it for today as I'll be completely fatigued at this point.

I've been having trouble getting in wed and thurs, so I'll hit arms on Friday. Then traps and more shoulder work on Sat.
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PostSubject: Re: OT: Weight Training Question   Tue Nov 17, 2009 11:34 am

abs are tough. Basically we all have the proverbial six pack. To see it though, you need to eliminate all fat around your midsection.

For your abs to show, it really comes down to your cardio and diet. But don't be discouraged and keep working them.

I have a big ole gut, but I work enough abs that if someone punches me in the stomach I can smile at them, which is always fun to see their reaction.

I try to do abs every day. Either when I wake up or right before bed. Couple of months ago I was doing biclycle crunches. Now I'm doing crunches and leg lifts. Still developing my abs is a losign proposition.
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